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Loaded
08-05-2009, 02:03 PM
Would supplementing with an L arginine powder have any results similar to NO products (pump, vascularity, etc)? JUst confused on what it is in the pre-workout products that gives the pump.

david
08-05-2009, 02:20 PM
Would supplementing with an L arginine powder have any results similar to NO products (pump, vascularity, etc)? JUst confused on what it is in the pre-workout products that gives the pump.Yes. It is the precursor to nitric oxide. Provides pump. In other words, useless.

However, arginine combined with Viagra is extremely effective. Unrelated to working out, though.

lylemcd
08-05-2009, 07:26 PM
If you want a good pump during training sip a carb/protein drink. You'll get plenty of NO goodness (not that it's relevant) and actually be anabolic.

Arginine tastes like bleach.

PeyZS
08-05-2009, 11:39 PM
If you want a good pump during training sip a carb/protein drink. You'll get plenty of NO goodness (not that it's relevant) and actually be anabolic.

Arginine tastes like bleach.

it also tends to induce wonderful bouts of diarrhea in the doses required for an actual pump

better off with a six pack of skinny cow ice cream sammiches

jigglypuffs
08-06-2009, 07:36 AM
However, arginine combined with Viagra is extremely effective. Unrelated to working out, though.
Unrelated to working out? Hmm, sounds like it could be good for my favorite kind of cardio.

david
08-06-2009, 10:15 AM
Unrelated to working out? Hmm, sounds like it could be good for my favorite kind of cardio.Yup.

tayjeremy
08-06-2009, 06:20 PM
say NO to NO-Explode. Seriously if you wana explode in size you gota take a product taht says "Ya-Explode!"

Pikku
08-06-2009, 07:26 PM
I seem to remember a study saying oral arginine does jack all for raising nitric oxide levels so it fails at producing that all important pump anyway

Radaar
08-06-2009, 08:21 PM
I still can't believe people buy this garbage...worst tasting junk...well, maybe not, CEE and Hydroslate probably take the cake, but still....eat a potato.

david
08-06-2009, 09:29 PM
I seem to remember a study saying oral arginine does jack all for raising nitric oxide levels so it fails at producing that all important pump anywayOral arginine does indeed raise NO levels, but the body, not understanding your need for pump or wood, breaks it down very rapidly. The reason Viagra works is that it blocks the enzyme which breaks down NO. So, in combination, excellent.

Still, pump is useless.

Wood, on the other hand...

MB13
08-06-2009, 10:54 PM
Here's a study to look at...

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2009 Apr;41(4):773-9.
Hemodynamic and vascular response to resistance exercise with L-arginine.
Fahs CA, Heffernan KS, Fernhall B.
Department of Kinesiology and Community Health, Exercise and Cardiovascular
Research Laboratory, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, Champaign, IL
61820, USA.

PURPOSE: L-arginine, the precursor to nitric oxide (NO), has been shown to
improve endothelial function in patients with endothelial dysfunction. Resistance exercise has been shown to increase arterial stiffness acutely with no definitive cause. It is possible that a reduction in NO bioavailability is responsible for this. The purpose of this study was to examine the effect of acute L-arginine supplementation and resistance exercise on arterial function. METHODS: Eighteen (N = 18) young men (24.2 +/- 0.7 yr) volunteered for this study. In a crossover design, subjects underwent body composition testing, 1-repetition maximum testing for the bench press and the biceps curls and performed two acute bouts of resistance exercise in which they consumed either placebo or 7 g L-arginine before each resistance exercise bout. Anthropometric measures, augmentation index (AIx), arterial stiffness, and forearm blood flow (FBF) were assessed before and after each treatment condition. RESULTS: There were significant (P < 0.05) time effects after the resistance exercise; there was a reduction in brachial stiffness (P = 0.0001), an increase in central aortic stiffness (P = 0.004), an increase in AIx (P = 0.023), an increase in FBF (P = 0.000), and an increase in arm circumference (P = 0.0001) after exercise. CONCLUSIONS: The increase in central arterial stiffness and wave reflection was not attenuated by acute supplementation with L-arginine; furthermore, blood flow was not augmented with supplementation. On the basis of these data, l-arginine does not appear to change the hemodynamic and vascular responses to resistance exercise.

Pikku
08-06-2009, 11:55 PM
This is the one i was thinking of (im pretty sure it was this one). In any case if something raises levels only to be broken down v. quickly back to baseline, doesnt that mean it doesn't really do jack for raising no levels(at least to any meaningful extent)?
And yes i agree pump is useless


Liu TH, Wu CL, Chiang CW, Lo YW, Tseng HF, Chang CK.

Department of Physical Education, Taiwan Sport University, 404 Taichung, Taiwan.

Arginine supplementation has been shown to alleviate endothelial dysfunction and improve exercise performance through increasing nitric oxide production in patients with cardiopulmonary diseases. In addition, arginine supplementation could decrease accumulations of lactate and ammonia, metabolites involved in development of muscular fatigue. The aim of this study was to investigate the effect of short-term arginine supplementation on performance in intermittent anaerobic exercise and the underlying mechanism in well-trained male athletes. Ten elite male college judo athletes participated with a randomized crossover, placebo-controlled design. The subjects consumed 6 g/day arginine (ARG trial) or placebo (CON trial) for 3 days then performed an intermittent anaerobic exercise test on a cycle ergometer. Blood samples were collected before supplementation, before and during exercise and 0, 3, 6, 10, 30 and 60 min after exercise. ARG trial had significantly higher arginine concentrations than CON trial at the same time point before, during and after exercise. In both trials, nitrate and nitrite concentration was significantly higher during and 6 min after exercise comparing to the basal concentration. The increase in nitrate and nitrite concentration during exercise in both trials was parallel to the increase in plasma citrulline concentrations. There was no significant difference between the 2 trials in plasma nitrate and nitrite, lactate and ammonia concentrations and peak and average power in the exercise. The results of this study suggested that short-term arginine supplementation had no effect on nitric oxide production, lactate and ammonia metabolism and performance in intermittent anaerobic exercise in well-trained male athletes.

lylemcd
08-07-2009, 08:40 AM
A lot of the pro argining studies used infusion. UNfortunately, that doesn't always correspond to oral ingestion.

jaime11
03-21-2012, 06:47 AM
I read this:

http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/s00726-011-1199-1

"the effects the 10% total protein, of which ~8% came from casein and 1.8% from supplemental l-arginine (cf. figure 2) had on the body composition of the 6 week-old mice in the Clemmenson study, were pretty astonishing"

"the arginine-mediated increase in insulin sensitivity about which the scientists write:
OGTT and ITT, performed at week 8 and 9, respectively, demonstrated that L -Arg supplemented mice were signifi-cantly more glucose tolerant (34% reduction in AUC, P < 0.03) and insulin sensitive than mice on the control diet. Fasting blood glucose levels were significantly lower in the L -Arg supplemented group (7.9 0.4 mmol/L) compared with the control group (9.7 0.2 mmol/L, P = 0.003), but basal plasma insulin concentrations after 10 weeks on the diet did not significantly differ between the two groups"