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-   -   De novo lipogenesis (http://forums.lylemcdonald.com//showthread.php?t=33057)

Scraff 03-13-2017 12:56 PM

De novo lipogenesis
 
I would read frequently on nutrition forums that de novo lipogenesis rarely happens and only in extreme conditions. Is the overall view on that changing? I've been running into more articles recently that suggests it seems to be.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4832395/

http://www.medpagetoday.com/meetingcoverage/endo/50396

BigPecsPeter 03-13-2017 03:49 PM

It's not important. Don't worry about it.

lylemcdonald 03-13-2017 05:56 PM

Eat moronic amounts of fructose (usually in the form of sugary soda and people who do this always have a staggeringly bad diet and lifestyle and what do you think is the real problem here) in the liver and it can happen.

Solution: don't eat moronic amounts of fructose/a totally crap diet with inactivity that makes you get fat as hell because your entire lifestyle sucks.

Scraff 03-13-2017 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lylemcdonald (Post 300920)
Eat moronic amounts of fructose (usually in the form of sugary soda and people who do this always have a staggeringly bad diet and lifestyle and what do you think is the real problem here) in the liver and it can happen.

Solution: don't eat moronic amounts of fructose/a totally crap diet with inactivity that makes you get fat as hell because your entire lifestyle sucks.

I'm not looking for an excuse to eat a crappy diet. I'm trying to get the straight dope on how rare de novo lipogenesis is.

Something you've said in the past:

Quote:

Unless you’re deliberately overfeeding carbs for many days in a row (along with an extremely low-fat intake), DNL generally contributes minimally, if at all to fat gain (for review, see Hellerstein, 1999).
From the following study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2991323/


... fructose can rapidly and without any control produce glucose, glycogen, lactate, and pyruvate, providing both the glycerol and acyl portion of acyl-glycerol molecules. These particular substrates and the lack of regulation of this pathway could result in large amounts of TG that can be packed into very-low density lipoproteins by the liver. ...The investigators demonstrated that post meal lipogenesis increased in proportion to fructose concentration in a beverage: from 7.8% for 100g glucose beverage to 15.9% after a mixture of 50g glucose: 50g fructose and 16.9% after a mixture of 25g glucose: 75g fructose beverage. Body fat synthesis was measured immediately after the sweet drinks were consumed. This study concluded that fructose has an immediate acute lipogenic effect; with greater serum TG level in the morning, and after a subsequent meal, even if consumed as a small amount in a mixture of sugars. ...

There was a 7.8% icrease in post meal lipogenesisfor after a 100g glucose beverage. That's about two and a half cans of coke or a coke and a slice of pie.

BigPecsPeter 03-14-2017 06:05 AM

Did you even READ the full paper?

"Moreover, in a recent meta-analysis, no significant effect of fructose consumption could be demonstrated on body weight with doses ≤ 100g/day in adults [40]."

I.e., and in non academic language, it's really NOT IMPORTANT.

Quote:

There was a 7.8% icrease in post meal lipogenesisfor after a 100g glucose beverage. That's about two and a half cans of coke or a coke and a slice of pie
Have you done mathematics before? If so, please go back to your Grade 4 book and note the carefully worded phrase:

"In the context of post meal lipogenesis, a 7.8% increase is virtually nothing."

lylemcdonald 03-14-2017 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigPecsPeter (Post 300932)
Did you even READ the full paper?

"Moreover, in a recent meta-analysis, no significant effect of fructose consumption could be demonstrated on body weight with doses ≤ 100g/day in adults [40]."

I.e., and in non academic language, it's really NOT IMPORTANT.


Have you done mathematics before? If so, please go back to your Grade 4 book and note the carefully worded phrase:

"In the context of post meal lipogenesis, a 7.8% increase is virtually nothing."

It sounds like a huge amount but when you look at absolute numbers it equates to nothing.

And once again, it's simply when peope consume moronic amounts of fructose. You see this in people drinking lots of regula soda. Who always have a staggeringly bad overall lifestyle.

lylemcdonald 03-14-2017 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scraff (Post 300921)
I'm not looking for an excuse to eat a crappy diet. I'm trying to get the straight dope on how rare de novo lipogenesis is.

Something you've said in the past:



From the following study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2991323/


... fructose can rapidly and without any control produce glucose, glycogen, lactate, and pyruvate, providing both the glycerol and acyl portion of acyl-glycerol molecules. These particular substrates and the lack of regulation of this pathway could result in large amounts of TG that can be packed into very-low density lipoproteins by the liver. ...The investigators demonstrated that post meal lipogenesis increased in proportion to fructose concentration in a beverage: from 7.8% for 100g glucose beverage to 15.9% after a mixture of 50g glucose: 50g fructose and 16.9% after a mixture of 25g glucose: 75g fructose beverage. Body fat synthesis was measured immediately after the sweet drinks were consumed. This study concluded that fructose has an immediate acute lipogenic effect; with greater serum TG level in the morning, and after a subsequent meal, even if consumed as a small amount in a mixture of sugars. ...

There was a 7.8% icrease in post meal lipogenesisfor after a 100g glucose beverage. That's about two and a half cans of coke or a coke and a slice of pie.

So don't eat 2 cans of coke and a slice of pie for god's sake. How hard is this?

That's a crap meal and a crap diet and QUANTITATIVELY the amount of fat made is miniscule compared to the TOTAL AMOUNT OF FAT IN THE SLICE OF FREAKING PIE.

Yeah, fine you make a couple of grams of fat from the fructose.
And ate 30 grams of fat in the pie

Which matters more?

THE PIE

Basically the word you're missing here is QUANTIATIVELY sgnificant. Does DNL happen? Sure. But is it relevant in a world where people are eating 100+ grams of fat per day. No, no it is not.

Because say you drink 2 cans soda and the eat the pie. And DNL is 7.8% or whaterver
Eat the identical amount of fpure fat and you know how much fat is mades/tored: 97%

what matters more?

tyler163 03-27-2017 08:51 AM

http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/48/2/240.short

150 gr fat gain every 450 gr cho x day ingested after glycogen repletion..i don t read the paper only abstract but quantitavely irrelevant...

BigPecsPeter 03-27-2017 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyler163 (Post 301247)
http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/48/2/240.short

150 gr fat gain every 450 gr cho x day ingested after glycogen repletion..i don t read the paper only abstract but quantitavely irrelevant...

And this is relevant to the thread because of...??

You just linked to an old study that demonstrates that DNL happens with MASSIVE carb overfeeding. In this study the participants were so overfed that on the final day they averaged an intake of around 5000kcal

tyler163 03-28-2017 02:29 AM

Because of...someone answer that the novo lipogenesis is irrilrvant while the study (yes an old study...but a study...or only we can trust in new study?) says you could gain 150 gr of fat eating 450 gr of carbo...the same can occur eating 160 gr of fat. So the question of the thread if it is relevant...i think yes Because 450 gr of carbo is not a "extreme" amount neither 150 gr of fat gain is an irrilevan amount. That is my idea...who ask the question could see the 2 opinion and decide...if he prefear to gain 100 gr of fat eating 500 gr of white rice or gain the same amount eating 300 gr of fat cheese. Is like my question about caffeine and lypolisis..for you and squat is irrilevant. .for me and other people on earth it could be relevant.


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