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-   -   Any studies on legit fasted lifting? (http://forums.lylemcdonald.com//showthread.php?t=34810)

manofsteel 04-28-2018 03:50 AM

Any studies on legit fasted lifting?
 
I have noticed a lot of places on the internet seem to say that if you lift while fasting (completely fasted, no bcaa's or anything like that) that you will end up losing muscle. I have been experimenting with fasting a bit (usually a 21/3 split for fasting and eating window per day as well as doing 36 hour fasts between thursday night and saturday morning) and I have been contemplating doing some light lifting. I have kind of stayed away from it though because a lot of places say it is counterproductive but I have yet to find any research actually backing it up.

One study I did find interesting is a follow up to the study that ERFL is based on done by some of the same people.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...017.00483/full

Anyway, in this study they basically did the same thing with making people eat like 350 calories a day and doing extreme amounts of cardio for 4 days. Half the people they gave all whey protein, the other half they gave all sucrose. One would assume the whey protein group preserved more muscle but in fact they did not. The sucrose group was able to perform the exercises better and actually maintained more of muscle than the whey group.

My thinking is that both the groups were basically in a fasted state for most of their workouts and since the sucrose group had more energy to work out, they maintained more muscle because they could exercise more efficiently. The improved exercise was the key.

These studies also surprised me because it shows that cardio like long distance walking or riding a bike (another thing I have heard can cause muscle loss) actually works to maintain muscle.

Anyway, I guess my question is are there any real studies about what happens if you lift in hour 18 of a 36 hours fast (or something similar). Basically no pre or post nutrition for an extended period of time. Obviously the effects in terms of gaining muscle wouldn't be optimal, but I would imagine that it would at least increase muscle retention while losing fat. Any thoughts?

InsertCleverNameHere 04-28-2018 08:01 AM

I'm not sure it would matter. Studies seem to do things like "we compared training after 36 hours of fasting to training after eating at a buffet..." or "we implemented this protocol on post-menopausal women." You can't just apply the results directly to yourself. Also, just as one fine day does not make a spring, one study might not tell you all that much.

What are your goals? Do you accept that there's no magic bullet?

manofsteel 04-28-2018 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InsertCleverNameHere (Post 310763)
I'm not sure it would matter. Studies seem to do things like "we compared training after 36 hours of fasting to training after eating at a buffet..." or "we implemented this protocol on post-menopausal women." You can't just apply the results directly to yourself. Also, just as one fine day does not make a spring, one study might not tell you all that much.

What are your goals? Do you accept that there's no magic bullet?

I am obese. My goals are to get to a normalise weight while maintaining muscle mass. I am just curious if there is scientific evidence that suggests lifting fasted is productive or counterproductive in terms of muscle mass.

LightCrow 04-28-2018 08:53 AM

Since you’re obese and just focused on fat loss it probably won’t make much of a huge difference. Were you lean and trying to maximize gains that would be another matter. Like most hypotheticals people throw out - why is this an issue. It won’t hurt to have a scoop of whey prior to a workout and may even help.

InsertCleverNameHere 04-28-2018 10:21 AM

I don't have an answer to your question, but as LightCrow said, it probably doesn't change anything one way or the other.

I think one of the most important things for obese people is to just figure out what they like and what they can sustain over the long run. This is just an example and is not meant to apply to you, but I was thinking the other day about how common it is to see people do RFL, lose a lot of weight, and then come back and do a second log because they gained it all back. Maintenance seems to me to be the hard part, but maybe I'm projecting my own situation onto others, since I've been struggling with weight regain.

lylemcdonald 04-28-2018 10:39 AM

Maintenance has always been the hardest part of dieting and keeping it off is far harder than losing it to begin with

manofsteel 04-29-2018 12:34 PM

I just finished up a 60 hour fast. I did some hiking yesterday and it was fine, though I did feel a bit sluggish near the end of it. I will probably just avoid any real lifting during these fasts and just stick with liss cardio.

ssg10587 04-29-2018 10:25 PM

Doubt that one thing in isolation is losing you muscle. Also don't really understand why it would be counterproductive.

Ive personally done both. Eating was pretty nice and helped maintain strength very well. That said, I haven't lost much strength doing fasted training while on RFL.

Rather than take some broscience from people online, Id recommend you try both and see which you like more. I actually am leaning towards fasted because it doesn't bloat me during my workout.

ajm587 05-03-2018 06:22 AM

Is there anything I can do to prevent myself from waking up hungry? I loved training with just water, black coffee, and some BCAAs beforehand, but lately I've been waking up hungry. Could this just be a case of not eating enough the day before?

manofsteel 05-03-2018 10:58 AM

I find my hunger during the day is directly related to what I ate the day before.


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