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-   -   Why are low volume/heavy weights routines recommended for hardgainers? (http://forums.lylemcdonald.com//showthread.php?t=34575)

GabrielPG 02-02-2018 01:19 PM

Why are low volume/heavy weights routines recommended for hardgainers?
 
Aren't hardgainers more attuned to strength endurance rather than max efforts?

Wouldn't be a high rep mid volume program with a few heavy low rep sets sprinkled in between better?

LightCrow 02-02-2018 01:27 PM

It all goes back to HIT philosophy that they have poor recovery, so need less volume to grow. Stuart McRobert is their Jedi Master. That's pretty old 90s training dogma though, not really what anyone with credibility is saying any more. Just do what Lyle says for bulking even if you are a hardgainer.

zLeeKo 02-02-2018 01:56 PM

Actually, what Lyle recommended once was high volume and more food.

And what LightCrow said.

LightCrow 02-02-2018 02:04 PM

And to play pedantics, unless you're on 600mg a week aren't we all hardgainers?

w1cked 02-02-2018 03:32 PM

Because they are productive. Even for non hardgainers.

zLeeKo 02-03-2018 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightCrow (Post 309398)
And to play pedantics, unless you're on 600mg a week aren't we all hardgainers?

I think it's more accurate to say that most are 'normalgainers'. It's just that looking at easygainers/drug users skews people's ideas of what is normal or can be realistically expected. So they see some bozo claiming 20 lbs of muscle in 2 months (or hell 6 weeks if you're Christian Thibadeau) and try to mimick that. And just fat fat. And draw silly conclusions. Or going to very dumb training interpretations. Also, by the time you've decided you're an 'extreme hardgainer', you've already given up.

But the only silly thing is measuring yourself against drug users/lying hypocrites.

A lot of people fool themselves (at least for a certain time period) and think their muscular gains are bigger than they really are just because scale is going up and they are lifting heavier weights.

But you always have to consider (so you don't trick yourself):

- neural strength gains
- if training is optimized for growth
- if strength is increasing due to technique becoming worse?
-mistake fat for muscle (often happens for people moving up in the 13-17 BF% range...and then BAM when they move out that range they realize damn i was gaining more fat than i believed. 13-17% is in many cases a tricky BF range as it can 'hide' fat gains)
-if the diet is optimized for growth
-obesification gains (fat can drive up strength too)

P.S.
My secret point: Fat is key to happiness and strength.:cool:

AlphaBettor 02-03-2018 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GabrielPG (Post 309393)
Aren't hardgainers more attuned to strength endurance rather than max efforts?

Wouldn't be a high rep mid volume program with a few heavy low rep sets sprinkled in between better?

It never made much sense to me either. Not a big fan of the term hardgainer but I'm sure we all know what it means. If we look at some of the commonalities they have - often slight build/small joints, slow-twitch type, poor growth response - these are things that the low volume, high intensity abbreviated training doesn't really fit in very well with.

That said, people who don't gain well on normal programs usually don't gain well on any program. If they're not going to gain anything anyway, they might as well spend as little time at the gym as possible. (At one time I said this as a lame joke but now I'm in the stage where it's like wait, that might actually be right!)

InsertCleverNameHere 02-03-2018 08:09 AM

Is OP talking about the 90s or today?

It seems to me that there have always been the mainstream recommendations from the magazines like hitting every angle of the muscle, muscle confusion, supplements, etc. and more niche type approaches. Today, I guess what's popular is represented by Youtube and BB.com. When I was growing up, Stuart McRobert and the guys advocating HIT were a sane minority advocating sensible training. These days the sane people seem to be calling themselves "evidence-based."

Overall, it seems like everybody is in love with volume these days. Both the BB.com people and the evidence based people seem to be saying that volume is key (even though they might have different interpretations).

zLeeKo 02-03-2018 08:57 AM

By definition being a hardgainer doesn't mean you can't put on FFM, it means it's harder to do so (i.e. requires more volume).

So hard hainers = more volume and more food?

Well, the argument would be that perhaps a different training program might be better for the slender folks.

What's interesting is that there have been two opposing approahces suggested.

The Hardgainer (aka the magazine) philosophy is lower volume and higher intensity focusing on increasing weight on big movements.

Others have argued for higher frequency and modulated intensity due to generally lowered recovery in the typical HG guy.

The Hardgainer approach always came from the stance that drug fuelled super high volume bodybuilding was the ruin of the natural. And went to the other extreme. But there is a happy medium. The HG camp got stupider and stupider with extreme low volume and frequency.

So how should you train?

2-way split. 4 workouts per week. 3-7 sets per body part (depending on which body part and individual training tolerance). Stop most sets 1 rep before failure. (i.e. GBR).

It's a great set up and is what (most) people at intermediate level should be doing to add mass (except me, I'm delicate little flower).

nsteel 02-05-2018 05:22 PM

Surely you're better off doing a Mon, Wed, Fri regimen?
You only grow when you're recovering on off days.

Consider this. If I use a heavy weight and go to complete failure on 1 set, surely any additional sets thereafter will be needlessly thrashed already recruited motor units?


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