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Unread 09-12-2017, 11:43 AM
John Wayne Davids John Wayne Davids is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 13
Post Review of Rapid Fat Loss Diet at End of Month 2


Gender: Male
Age: 36
Height: 175cm or 5ft 7 inches
Starting Weight: 96.5kg or 212lbs
Current Weight: 87kg or 191lbs
Starting BMI: 31.5
Current BMI: 28.4
Starting BF%: 27.5%
Current BF%: 23%
Estimated TDEE: 2400+
Category: Category 3 Dieter

Link to TDEE Calculator that provides a little more information.

*BF% calculated from the BMI to BF% chart at the back of the Rapid Fat Loss Handbook. I am fairly typical of the general male population, so this is somewhat accurate (although just an estimate at the very best).

What I eat:

Skinless chicken breast, cabbage, drip coffee, peaches or grapefruit, somewhat low calorie sauce (24cal per 20ml). Mostly boiled.

Protein is less than suggested at 88+g (123g is the required amount). I use the USDA food list for my nutritional information. Cabbage on that site, for example, is 23 calories per 100g. A great filler if you need one.

In a typical day I eat 1 meal of 400g of chicken breast cut up and boiled with as much cabbage as fills my meduim sized wok. I eat this with sauce then have a 200g peach afterwards. I then eat another peach later in the evening a few hours before bed. I usually eat several hours after I wake up (very late). Drip coffee in the morning gets me to this first meal in fairly good shape. That is around 1000 calories give or take. Everything is just an estimate.

Edit: I don't take the fish oil because it makes me sick. Other oils usually do too. I probably get limited fats from various small tastes of the oily food my room mate makes (see 'what I learned...')


First, I am supportive of RFL, but people's bodies and experiences vary and, thus, results and their ability to adhere might be quite different. Read around and you'll find it's not for everyone.

There are a few reasons why this diet is good for me. The most relevant are that I'm mostly inactive due to nerve damage in my feet, I injure easily due to my health issues and I need to lose weight quickly to lower the load on my legs. The most activity I can manage right now is two 45 minute walks per day with the occasional long bout of standing on public transportation (1.5 hours max). Aside from that I'm sedentary. Fast fat loss, no need to exercise greatly and so on mean RFL is well suited to my situation.

(It's worth noting that I don't do weight lifting because my body won't allow for it right now.)

So far I have done this diet for two months. The first month I didn't really do it as written. I occasionally ate outside of the guidelines and my calorie intake was higher (1300-1500) than I would have liked. The second month has been worse and better. I had two major incidents that caused me to overeat for 3 days and eat near maintenance for 7. Regardless, I have lost 4.5kg (10 pounds) per month and am satisfied with that.

Probably the biggest challenge in all of this so far has been one of hunger and adherence. At first it wasn't so bad on either front. I would be mostly perfect and that was fine. However, after awhile I found the hunger got worse and my adherence fell off. Yet, I was able to turn things back around (see below) and now have great adherence.

Here are some of the helpful things I learned along the way.
1. If I feel hungry and then take a vitamin tablet, sometimes the hunger goes away. (I take them as needed as the pill fillers and excess vitamins make me sick.)
2. Video games are a great distraction (particularly FPShooters) and keep me away from food.
3. Protein doesn't satisfy me. Bulk satisfies me. Having boiled cabbage in bulk with my meals strongly curbed my hunger in comparison to more protein.
4. Having an activity like walking where I can get away from the kitchen and carry no money has been helpful. Hunger (for me) usually dies off after 1 to 2 hours of waiting.
5. It's in the moments where I'm not focused that I tend to overeat. Frequently this starts with "Well, I might as well..." or "I really feel like..."
6. If you live with someone who cooks right in front of you, take a small amount of their food (spoonful) and eat it then think about how weight loss is more important than satisfying cravings. We usually just want a taste. It's never as tasty as you think.
7. Eating as late as I can (I mean fast as long as I can), makes dieting easier.
8. There is nothing wrong with skipping a meal because I'm going to eat more than I need sometimes.
9. Maintenance is always much less than you want or think or can eat.
10. Food that can be cooked fast and takes time to eat (500g of cabbage takes forever to chew through) is always best.
11. Having a tasty low calorie sauce is the number one most important food decision I made. It's a basic watery meat sauce (you could just make meat sauce and add water). You can probably find a lower calorie option (salt and pepper, for example, are zero calorie) than me. I need sauce with things.
12. Coffee in the morning tends to blunt my hunger up to a point.
13. Citrus fruits tend to make me hungry after a shorter time than things like peaches and apples.
14. Soda water tends to curb hunger for a few minutes, but tends to make it worse or occur shortly after.
15. I don't do cheat meals and refeeds because I naturally cheat when I eat a small amount of someone's food. Plus I adhere better if I don't overeat something ("I might as well..." kicks in.)
16. What I've found is that (in my case) calories are mostly irrelevant if the set up of the diet and food selection is on point. Because I took the time and dotted most of my i's and crossed my t's, I can rely on the diet to do what it is supposed to as long as I don't stray too much.
17. Living with someone who expects you to eat with them can be a challenge. I recommend going for a walk while they eat and scheduling in some quality time with them later in the evening. Going out to bars/cafes is more challenge than I'm capable of, so I have mostly been spending time at people's houses, which has actually been better for my relationships.
18. I've found weighing myself around the end of each month (especially after a good bowel movement or a whoosh [lengthy urination]) is way better for me than weighing myself daily or weekly or something. Weight and measurements stress me out for the most part, so less is best. I always take my absolute lightest weight as my current weight.
19. I've found that having other measures of improvement to be vastly better than weight. I have a shirt that I used to wear when I was 70kg and I put it on now and then. My work clothes are another great test. My current trousers are getting way too big around the thighs and my shirt isn't tightly pressed to my stomach anymore when tucked.

(Edit: I tend to hold fat on my stomach, lower chest and thighs. I shrink down in other areas faster than those. Hence, number 19 above is quite relevant due to my fat pattern.)

Overall, the diet has been great. I'm very optimistic about the coming 29 more days until I take a 2 week break and dip back in. Speaking specifically for the 2 months that I have done: It has been great and I am happy with my results and especially the reduction in pain I feel in my feet (a big reason why I am losing weight in the first place.

If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to add them. I'm sure I'm forgetting something useful above. Maybe you can prompt me to remember it.
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Unread 09-12-2017, 12:24 PM
Determinism Determinism is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 593

Most points are about your strategy to fight hunger. It's a psychological game with yourself. Environment plays a huge, huge role.

I'd like to add the following hunger tip:
When hungry, take a (hot) shower. It not only functions as a distraction, it prevents you from physically going to the kitchen. Then, when in the shower, you can ponder and put the situation into perspective: "Am I going for a quick satisfaction, or is the overall goal of a fit, leaner body more important to me?"
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Unread 09-12-2017, 05:49 PM
Scarletgray Scarletgray is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 29

But this isn't RFL. You're getting around 70% of the required protein, and peaches and grapefruit are not part of the diet
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Unread 09-12-2017, 06:20 PM
InsertCleverNameHere InsertCleverNameHere is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 338

Interesting post.

On the food side of things, I would add that cucumbers, celery, and loads of broccoli can also be low calorie foods that help get in some bulk. I think some people do broth as well.

I'm around the same height and was up to something like 220 lbs at one point, maybe even higher. You know this already, but I'd say that the estimate for your body fat percentage is probably too low. Especially if you don't have much muscle ( I think you said you don't lift).

Good luck!
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Unread 09-13-2017, 10:27 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 448

You definitely make some good observations about the psychological aspect of dieting.

For month #3 here are some recommendations:

1) Definitely need to up the protein, that's a really large deficit. Think of all the muscle you will eventually catabolize. And you've stated you cant lift weights to get it back... think about the potential slowdown in metabolism for the rest of your life...

2) You should really add the fish oils to your diet. If you got at least 6/daily it would do a world of good even if you can't manage 10. Try refrigerating the pills or another brand or something. Or just eat fish... This may help with a lot of the health issues you seem to be experiencing.

3) That peach before bed is a nasty insulin spike for little to no satiety or diet compliance. You can make a lot better choice there. The one during the meal isn't as bad comparatively, although fruit is less than ideal on RFL altogether.

Lastly, we all tend to underestimate our own bodyfat%. At 5'7, 197 you are still Cat 3 in all likelihood. I'd stick with that another couple weeks unless you are very muscular.

Good luck. Challenge yourself to lose another 10 lbs this month. The first 10 sorta drips off on any diet. The next 10 takes a little discipline. I feel like after ~20 pounds most people fail because the weight doesn't melt off as easy.
My Wild Ride to A great body in my 30s.

Thank you Lyle. This website is a game changer once you understand the mechanisms behind fat loss/muscle gain.

Spun my wheels for years prior to finding this site.
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Unread 09-14-2017, 04:35 AM
John Wayne Davids John Wayne Davids is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 13
Smile Replies to those that commented.

Hello All. Thanks for chiming in with your comments.


Determinism, yes, I definitely focused on hunger, didn't I? I think that the biggest challenge for me has been hunger. Nowadays I have been using coffee and will power to get through to my first meal (much later in the day) and I have to say that first meal feels massive after hours of not eating. I may have finally beat the hunger issue (for now).

Two things I forgot were I tend to have to eat every 5 hours and sleeping more (8 hours upto 10 hours) has really helped. By sleeping more, I cut out a few extra hours where I would have lay in bed watching TV or sat on the computer playing video games (or similar time wasting activity) and feel well rested daily.

I like the shower idea. I'll give it a try!


Scarletgray, I agree. I think we all modify things to our own needs and mostly perfect is a better goal than perfect. Probably what I wrote above was more "kinda perfect", which I agree isn't a good target. I'll answer at the bottom a little more fully on protein.


InsertCleverNameHere, your username is strong. Thank you for the food list. It's helpful to remember that there are other foods than cabbage out there!

I agree on the body fat percentage issue. I could be well higher or lower than the numbers suggest. I think we often get caught up in these numbers where the most important thing in my opinion is the difference between the starting numbers and now. In my case I shifted 5% of total body weight. Being skeptical, we could say I lost 2-3% of fat weight. That doesn't feel that good when I write it, so, to be honest, so I'll, henceforth, go by the most scientific metric ever in my weight loss measurement: Can I fit into my M-size black shirt that I used to wear when I was quite lean (very close to where I want to be)? I put it on just before. There is still work to be done (wink).

That said, from an RFL perspective, the body fat percentage is super relevant to setting up the diet. I think the chart at the back of the book is probably our best bet beyond a DEXA (and even then) for getting it right. Of course, everything needs to be adjusted for real world results. If I lose another 4.95kg this month (heck, even 3kgs!), I'll be stoked.


BEATMEOUTTAME, thank you for the recommendatins. I really appreciate them.

On the fish oil, the last time that I had fish oil I had an small allergic reaction. It was the usually puff face, difficulty breathing, itchy feeling. I also felt brain sick and not-quite-right. I have tried a few different brands and it's about the same. I'll look into flax seed oil, but $$$ are limited. As it's required by RFL, I'll make my best effort.

On insulin, I never notice a bounce unless I eat something like a pack of gummy bears. I'm aware that people can't actually physically tell (based on studies of diabetics), so I guess I might be spiking insulin. I'm not sure how to tell other than to get a needle and a insulin tester.

On fruit, my experience has been the opposite to suggested. After I eat a meal, I always need something sweet afterwards. Resisting that leads to eating more (usually much more). Hence, I eat a little fruit. Also, because this has been going on my entire life, I have a psychological trigger that when I eat something sweet after a meal, it means that the period of eating is over. Disobeying this quirky little rule is probably part of the reason I'm 20kg+ overweight (overeating due to no sense of completion). Weird, right?

Note: I did try drinking no calorie sweet soft drinks, but chewing seems neccessary. Gum doesn't work either because it's not substantial. This is, of course, all up in my head and not a physical requirement.

On protein, see below, but isn't a pound of muscle worth only 6 calories towards one's daily resting energy expenditure? Have you seen this article by Lyle yet? (scroll down to the chart)

As you can see above, and quite contrary to what is commonly stated, skeletal muscle actually has a fairly low resting energy expenditure, roughly 6 calories per pound. This is contrast to very old values of 100 calories/pound or even more recent claims that a pound of muscle will raise metabolic rate by 40-50 calories per pound.
Any muscle loss would suck, honestly. However, I'm pretty fat so some of the muscle built to support movement will go regardless (no longer needed) and I expect some muscle loss anyway. Still, in terms of metabolism, let's say I lost a whooping 30 pounds of muscle then I would only be losing 180 calories per day. I think I'd really have to diet very poorly to lose that kind of muscle, so I'm not too worried about it.

EDIT: I wonder how much muscle at my previous value of 120 something grams I would be losing per day. If all of my weight loss was muscle loss then I'd be losing 165g a day. If 38g of not eaten protein is around 30% then 50g of muscle lost per day from 165g of average weight loss. I think we'd need a super computer to even get a starting number. Whatever it is the number must be impossible low and over a month might only be as much as 1kg of 5kgs at max. Maybe after 6 months I can do some kind of weight training. I could probably grow a pound a month of muscle as I'm definitely a beginner now. 1kg (probably 3-5kgs after losing 20-30kgs of total weight) at the absolute worst doesn't really phase me. It'd be a net loss of 65 calories at 5kg of muscle loss (absolute worst case scenario) from my RMR. (All of these numbers are meaningless, but you see my point.)

Honestly, what scares me most is tissue loss of the heart of liver on PSMF and that is very unlikely unless I was eating a very small amount of protein or doing something really crazy like blasting thyroid hormones or something (or so I've heard).

Thanks for making me think a lot today. It was fun writing all that up.



Thanks for all the comments. I don't get on forums much, so I apologize for the late response. It'll probably be another week before I return to this topic, so I apologize in advance.

I looked things over and I agree I need to up the protein. Today I decided to re-set up the diet based on my current weight and to my amusement this was the result:

*A chart showing my daily calorie, protein, carb, fat intake.

Edit: All values are taken from the USDA Food Search tool. I used this as it's a government database and I used it last time (hence, a bit more consistent). The numbers are estimates. If you've ever looked into skinless chicken breast before, you'll know that consistency in food intake and adjustment of diet beats out trying to have super accurate figures (of which, I feel, few exist). Some of this I took off the back of the can/bottle.

My current protein need is 117. All I need to do is add 50g of chicken to achieve that. So, I'll up my protein to that. (It's debatable whether protein from drinks and non-meat substance count, but I'll take it where I can.)

The other recent change is watermelon. Watermelon is 30 calories per 100g of flesh (no rind), so it's better than peaches for bulk (bulk is important to me) per amount of calories (peach is 47 calories per 100g).

That said, the above is not Perfect RFL, but in terms of getting a mostly perfect amount of protein, allowing for my psychological needs (the fruit thing I replied to above) and having a decent calorie intake, I'm pretty satisfied.

My apologies for the long response. Thank you in turn to those that responded earlier.
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Unread 09-15-2017, 01:42 PM
davidjr74's Avatar
davidjr74 davidjr74 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,053

Originally Posted by Scarletgray View Post
But this isn't RFL. You're getting around 70% of the required protein, and peaches and grapefruit are not part of the diet
Missing the required protein may be contributing to his hunger as well. Also while Watermelon is not a part of the diet, it should provide good potassium and if it helps you adhere than go for it. I would really add those fish oils though or get flax seed oils - essential fatty acids are essential for a reason.

Last edited by davidjr74 : 09-15-2017 at 01:47 PM.
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Unread 09-15-2017, 02:04 PM
holly70 holly70 is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Michigan
Posts: 301

Won't pretend I know how the portions/math would work out exactly, but if you really can not tolerate fish oil then maybe you could get some omega 3 in your diet w/omega 3 eggs and pasture raised beef.

Of course you don't want your fat intake to go too high. OTOH you should have some room for a little fat if you aren't taking the fish oil.
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Unread 09-16-2017, 06:24 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 448

I'm totally aware of Lyle's article that each lb of muscle burns 6 calories a day.

Say you lose 20 lbs of LBM (which you will if you keep up a severe protein deficit on RFL.) That slows your fat burning metabolism down by 12.5 lbs of fat annually. That's 50 pounds over the next four years.

Most bad information out there says gain muscle first to increase your metabolism.

Lyle's argument is do the diet first, then build muscle because it takes forever to gain muscle. But his argument isn't "lose muscle first, then the fat"
My Wild Ride to A great body in my 30s.

Thank you Lyle. This website is a game changer once you understand the mechanisms behind fat loss/muscle gain.

Spun my wheels for years prior to finding this site.
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