BodyRecomposition Support Forums  

Go Back   BodyRecomposition Support Forums > My products > The Protein Book
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 09-24-2011, 02:11 AM
Marneus Marneus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 246
Default Effects of around workout nutrition in the body

I am rereading by now the protein book, and I was just reading the chapter about nutrition around workout, and I am thinking about the effects of the whey, carbs... or what we consume in the adaptations of the body.

Always people talk about the window oportunity after training, to eat a lot of carbs and don't put anything in fat storages and so on... but is not the first time that I've read Lyle talking about the effects of the workout nutrition related to this effect.
After reading this chapter again, I am very confused and I have the same question, and it is if what you consume during the workout affects this "window oportunity". I mean... you can drink a preworkout powder, and the during the workout you probably (correct me if I am wrong) raise insuline sensitivity and make a lot of adaptations (I don't remember all now) but then, when you eat you have the advantage of the workout. But, if you are sipping any powder during the workout, your insuline levels stays normally, you don't deplete the glycogen stores so you can't sobrecompensate it, and so on...

my question is if during workout nutrition minimizes the window oportunity, or if it's can be detrimental for any adapatations.

cheers!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 09-24-2011, 05:18 AM
lylemcd's Avatar
lylemcd lylemcd is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 22,641
Default

You are confusing issues: supercompensation of glycogen with everything else that occurs.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 09-24-2011, 06:09 AM
Marneus Marneus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
You are confusing issues: supercompensation of glycogen with everything else that occurs.
ok.

but then... these other factors like insulin sensitivity and so on... can be lowered by using during workout nutrition? my doubt isn't about glycogen replenishment, as it is not my goal with during workout powder, my goal is to ensure massa gining and a workout in optimal conditions, but I am curious abouts the possible worse effects of this type of nutrition.

Thanks Lyle!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 09-25-2011, 02:24 PM
Marneus Marneus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marneus View Post
ok.

but then... these other factors like insulin sensitivity and so on... can be lowered by using during workout nutrition? my doubt isn't about glycogen replenishment, as it is not my goal with during workout powder, my goal is to ensure massa gining and a workout in optimal conditions, but I am curious abouts the possible worse effects of this type of nutrition.

Thanks Lyle!
anyone? I assume that probably glycogen stores won't be depleted if you're consuming carbs intra workout, but what about the insulin sensitivity, markers of growth and all this stuff? It is positive or negative affected?

cheers!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 09-25-2011, 05:37 PM
popupwindow popupwindow is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,906
Default

The original studies on pwo nutrition were based on subjects fasted overnight, then doing a workout in the morning, then having stuff pwo (carbs, protein, carbs and protein etc). As they were fasted and in a catabolic state, immediate pwo nutrition made a big difference. Thus having a pwo meal/shake 30 mins pwo was better than 2 hours pwo, and 2 hours pwo was better than 4 hours pwo. Then they realised 1 minute pwo was better than 30 mins pwo.

At some point people figured out that the studies were unrealistic as only a small amount of people train fasted in the morning. If you eat within 2-3 hours pre-workout, you're still digesting the carbs and protein from that meal during the workout, and likely in the post-workout period, depending on the size/composition of the meal. This greatly reduces the importance of the pwo meal, as they realised eating PRE-WORKOUT was more important than trying to eat within 14 seconds of finishing your workout as t-nation and other BB sites would tell you.

If you do train first thing in the morning, a shake or light snack of carbs and protein 30-60 mins pre-workout is ideal, then eat a pwo meal within 1-3 hours, but there is no sense of urgency in the way people used to believe.

Having a shake during the workout is a bit of a different story, more to do with increasing performance, lowering cortisol and some other stuff. However, even if you were fasted pre-wo, a shake during the workout would also lower the importance of pwo nutrition.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 09-25-2011, 10:49 PM
Marneus Marneus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by popupwindow View Post
The original studies on pwo nutrition were based on subjects fasted overnight, then doing a workout in the morning, then having stuff pwo (carbs, protein, carbs and protein etc). As they were fasted and in a catabolic state, immediate pwo nutrition made a big difference. Thus having a pwo meal/shake 30 mins pwo was better than 2 hours pwo, and 2 hours pwo was better than 4 hours pwo. Then they realised 1 minute pwo was better than 30 mins pwo.

At some point people figured out that the studies were unrealistic as only a small amount of people train fasted in the morning. If you eat within 2-3 hours pre-workout, you're still digesting the carbs and protein from that meal during the workout, and likely in the post-workout period, depending on the size/composition of the meal. This greatly reduces the importance of the pwo meal, as they realised eating PRE-WORKOUT was more important than trying to eat within 14 seconds of finishing your workout as t-nation and other BB sites would tell you.

If you do train first thing in the morning, a shake or light snack of carbs and protein 30-60 mins pre-workout is ideal, then eat a pwo meal within 1-3 hours, but there is no sense of urgency in the way people used to believe.

Having a shake during the workout is a bit of a different story, more to do with increasing performance, lowering cortisol and some other stuff. However, even if you were fasted pre-wo, a shake during the workout would also lower the importance of pwo nutrition.
thanks man! I algo thought that a shake during the workout has more to say with maintaining stable the insulin an, in general, the performance, but I have read is algo a good moment, during the workou, to ensure that the nutrients enter in the muscles. Assuming I don't take anything bigger pre-wo, I eat roughly 3-4h before it.
I assume, then, that the effects of it would be more positiva than negative.

thanks again
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 12-13-2011, 09:08 PM
FutureisNow FutureisNow is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 529
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by popupwindow View Post
The original studies on pwo nutrition were based on subjects fasted overnight, then doing a workout in the morning, then having stuff pwo (carbs, protein, carbs and protein etc). As they were fasted and in a catabolic state, immediate pwo nutrition made a big difference. Thus having a pwo meal/shake 30 mins pwo was better than 2 hours pwo, and 2 hours pwo was better than 4 hours pwo. Then they realised 1 minute pwo was better than 30 mins pwo.

At some point people figured out that the studies were unrealistic as only a small amount of people train fasted in the morning. If you eat within 2-3 hours pre-workout, you're still digesting the carbs and protein from that meal during the workout, and likely in the post-workout period, depending on the size/composition of the meal. This greatly reduces the importance of the pwo meal, as they realised eating PRE-WORKOUT was more important than trying to eat within 14 seconds of finishing your workout as t-nation and other BB sites would tell you.

If you do train first thing in the morning, a shake or light snack of carbs and protein 30-60 mins pre-workout is ideal, then eat a pwo meal within 1-3 hours, but there is no sense of urgency in the way people used to believe.

Having a shake during the workout is a bit of a different story, more to do with increasing performance, lowering cortisol and some other stuff. However, even if you were fasted pre-wo, a shake during the workout would also lower the importance of pwo nutrition.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I beleive that at least one study, and I'd have to locate it, indicated that men over 40 only had a net positive protein balance eating within an hour, whereas younger guys could wait much longer.
Are you familar with that study?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 12-15-2011, 09:02 AM
CleanSnatch CleanSnatch is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 67
Default

PWO has been overly hyped by the people most to profit from it - supplement companies.

Let us assume that PWO meal consists of a rapidly digesting mix of protein and carbs. Realize that there are at least 4 variants which you describe

1. Fasted weight training + PWO meal immediately after

2. A solid meal (slow digesting whole foods) anywhere from 2-4 hrs before weight training + PWO meal immediately after.

3. A PWO type meal right before weight training (1 hr to 30 minutes prior) + PWO meal immediately after.

4. Some version of (2) or (3) but also with a carb drink being sipped during training.

Certainly one can speculate as to the effects of net nitrogen balance, insulin sensitivity, calorie partitioning, recovery. Pick four arm chair Brofessors with Ph.D.s in the bro-sciences and they will come up with plausible reasons why each one the 4 approaches is best. Go to bb.com and you will find such "experts" harping on one way is the best way. Certainly there might be one approach that is better than the others, but differences are minute.

In the end you care about effect - say you are working out to increase your bench press. I really doubt one approach is better than the others. I will guess your own baseline genetics will determine more how big your bench is after 5 yrs of solid training (or how big you get etc). Other things such as amount of stress in your life, sleep quality etc might have an even more profound effect on your recovery.

Approaches (2)-(4) seems best for bulking/gaining strength and (1) seems best when you are attempting to lose fat in conjunction with a sensible caloric deficit diet. At one time or another I have done all of these approaches and never had any major issues with recovery and strength. Again a late night will likely impact your strength more than anything else you might do food wise.

Last edited by CleanSnatch : 12-15-2011 at 09:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.