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  #1  
Unread 09-25-2018, 06:22 PM
dougz dougz is offline
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Default Starvation and its effects

Can anyone share any links for peer-reviewed articles or books on starvation and what happens to your body, physically and mentally?

I putting together a 'talk' for my search and rescue group, and I want to be able to have the facts. I want to impress upon them that food is not a priority in a survival situation as much as getting RESCUED! So stop building snares and fishing and focus on a signal fire, building a shelter..

But I digress..

For example, I've been told that in a survival suituation you are better off eating nothing at all if you can't eat enough to met your BMR needs. How long does it take for the body to enter a state of ketosis? What are the physiological and phycological effects of not eating anything for 3 weeks and beyond?

Stuff like that..

Thanks!
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  #2  
Unread 09-25-2018, 07:44 PM
manofsteel manofsteel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougz View Post
Can anyone share any links for peer-reviewed articles or books on starvation and what happens to your body, physically and mentally?

I putting together a 'talk' for my search and rescue group, and I want to be able to have the facts. I want to impress upon them that food is not a priority in a survival situation as much as getting RESCUED! So stop building snares and fishing and focus on a signal fire, building a shelter..

But I digress..

For example, I've been told that in a survival suituation you are better off eating nothing at all if you can't eat enough to met your BMR needs. How long does it take for the body to enter a state of ketosis? What are the physiological and phycological effects of not eating anything for 3 weeks and beyond?

Stuff like that..

Thanks!
I think a lot of the effects are individual. Some people feel great after multiple day fasts. Some lose energy quickly. A Buddhist monk told me this, saying he lived at the only monastery he knew of in Thailand that openly promoted fasting, and basically said everyone was different.

Also I think the physiological effects have a lot to do with body composition when the fast starts. An obese person can live for way longer than a lean person without food obviously.

As for actual studies I am not sure, but that is my anecdotal evidence.
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  #3  
Unread 09-25-2018, 07:49 PM
dougz dougz is offline
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There's the example of Gandhi, who went 21 days on more than 1 occasion, and started with very little lean body mass starting out..

But then he was mentally and physically conditioned from having performed several fasts before that..

I know in my case I had a lot of trouble initially breaking the 18 hour barrier (headache, lethargy, brain fog), but after I did, it was smooth sailing.. Though that was daily 18 hour fasts, not multi-day fasts..

Last edited by dougz : 09-25-2018 at 07:55 PM.
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  #4  
Unread 09-25-2018, 08:25 PM
manofsteel manofsteel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougz View Post
There's the example of Gandhi, who went 21 days on more than 1 occasion, and started with very little lean body mass starting out..

But then he was mentally and physically conditioned from having performed several fasts before that..

I know in my case I had a lot of trouble initially breaking the 18 hour barrier (headache, lethargy, brain fog), but after I did, it was smooth sailing.. Though that was daily 18 hour fasts, not multi-day fasts..
I have done up to 60 hours a few times. For me, energy levels seem high, mind seems relatively clear. I have trouble sleeping and have an overall restless feeling. Apparently this is relatively common and is an evolutionary adaption basically saying "this isn't the time to sleep, go use this restless energy to go get some food." Like I would wake up in the middle of the night and feel the need to be productive.
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  #5  
Unread 09-25-2018, 08:46 PM
dougz dougz is offline
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Yes, I get this about a week into my RFL diets..

Not sure if this is evolutionary adaptation or the caffeine/ephedrine.

Nothing for it but to get up and read.
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  #6  
Unread 09-26-2018, 04:29 AM
w1cked w1cked is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougz View Post
Yes, I get this about a week into my RFL diets..

Not sure if this is evolutionary adaptation or the caffeine/ephedrine.

Nothing for it but to get up and read.
Probably because low carb
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  #7  
Unread 09-26-2018, 06:15 PM
holly70 holly70 is offline
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Well this site is about fasting vs. starvation, but you may find it helpful.

https://www.allaboutfasting.com/safe...ue-hunger.html

Followed the guidelines there over a year ago for what turned out to be a 5 day fast. Around the 5 day mark I started getting very nauseous.

Actually started out what I was planning to be 3 days about 2 weeks ago. First day ways fine. Second day I felt fine and went to my usual spin class.

That wasn't too smart. Took a vitamin shortly after and within a half hour was vomiting it up through my nose and mouth. Yeah...said forget this. Didn't even try to stick it out another day.
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  #8  
Unread 09-26-2018, 06:31 PM
lylemcdonald lylemcdonald is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougz View Post
Can anyone share any links for peer-reviewed articles or books on starvation and what happens to your body, physically and mentally?

I putting together a 'talk' for my search and rescue group, and I want to be able to have the facts. I want to impress upon them that food is not a priority in a survival situation as much as getting RESCUED! So stop building snares and fishing and focus on a signal fire, building a shelter..

But I digress..

For example, I've been told that in a survival suituation you are better off eating nothing at all if you can't eat enough to met your BMR needs. How long does it take for the body to enter a state of ketosis? What are the physiological and phycological effects of not eating anything for 3 weeks and beyond?

Stuff like that..

Thanks!
Why in the world would you be better off eating nothing? That's nonsensical.

My keto book goes into the time course of all of this. But it takes weeks before ketones spare muscle loss.
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  #9  
Unread 09-26-2018, 07:55 PM
manofsteel manofsteel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holly70 View Post
Well this site is about fasting vs. starvation, but you may find it helpful.

https://www.allaboutfasting.com/safe...ue-hunger.html

Followed the guidelines there over a year ago for what turned out to be a 5 day fast. Around the 5 day mark I started getting very nauseous.

Actually started out what I was planning to be 3 days about 2 weeks ago. First day ways fine. Second day I felt fine and went to my usual spin class.

That wasn't too smart. Took a vitamin shortly after and within a half hour was vomiting it up through my nose and mouth. Yeah...said forget this. Didn't even try to stick it out another day.
You went to spin class while 2 days into a 3 day fast? lol, that is insane. I find that you can do low intensity cardio like walking while fasted but any real cardio that gets my heart beating fast gives me a head ache and makes me kind of dizzy. It isn't a pleasant feeling so I just avoided it.

Also, I find that making broth with bouillon and lite salt and supplementing with magnesium and multivitamin help a lot with sleep and just feeling better.
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  #10  
Unread 09-27-2018, 12:19 AM
dougz dougz is offline
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Thanks, Holly, I'll check that out..

Quote:
Why in the world would you be better off eating nothing? That's nonsensical.
This is what I'd like to learn more about..

The assertion is from Mors Kochanski, a well-known bushcrafter..

This link has a quotation from the book where he makes it:

Quote:
In attempting to live off the land, it is more preferable to only drink water, than to eat less than the minimum number of calories required each day. In not meeting the basal metabolic rate, which may be from 1100 to 1700 calories per day, there is such a disproportionate use of protein reserves in comparison to fat reserves that one may die of protein depletion in at least a quarter of the time as compared to fasting.
http://wildernessinnovation.com/2014...fasting-water/

I'll see about aquiring the book, thanks..
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