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  #1  
Unread 05-18-2014, 06:48 AM
Jonblood Jonblood is offline
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Default Another REFEED question

I'm 213lbs around 12% bodyfat. As a cat 1 dieter, my weekly refeed puts me over 900 grams of carbs and about 5,000 calories for that day.
I feel that eating 2k cals over maintenance once per week and the optional free meal will dramatically slow my fat loss. Am I wrong in thinking this? I've noticed Lyle's refeed guidelines in this book are way higher than many others' recommendations.

Am I wrong? Did I miss something?
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  #2  
Unread 05-18-2014, 07:20 PM
jzpowahz jzpowahz is offline
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Is this meant to be in UD2?
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  #3  
Unread 05-19-2014, 04:49 AM
Jonblood Jonblood is offline
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No
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  #4  
Unread 05-21-2014, 10:24 AM
Jonblood Jonblood is offline
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Anyone?
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  #5  
Unread 05-21-2014, 02:20 PM
Primalkid Primalkid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonblood View Post
I'm 213lbs around 12% bodyfat. As a cat 1 dieter, my weekly refeed puts me over 900 grams of carbs and about 5,000 calories for that day.
I feel that eating 2k cals over maintenance once per week and the optional free meal will dramatically slow my fat loss. Am I wrong in thinking this? I've noticed Lyle's refeed guidelines in this book are way higher than many others' recommendations.

Am I wrong? Did I miss something?
You are a cat-1. There is no free meal, and the re-feed is necessary. It seems like a lot but it isn't.
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  #6  
Unread 05-21-2014, 02:54 PM
MrSkinnyFat MrSkinnyFat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonblood View Post
I'm 213lbs around 12% bodyfat. As a cat 1 dieter, my weekly refeed puts me over 900 grams of carbs and about 5,000 calories for that day.
I feel that eating 2k cals over maintenance once per week and the optional free meal will dramatically slow my fat loss. Am I wrong in thinking this? I've noticed Lyle's refeed guidelines in this book are way higher than many others' recommendations.

Am I wrong? Did I miss something?
Primalkid said spot on.

Here is the thing. As you get to a certain low level of bodyfat (which we call Cat 1), your hormones are pretty much down the crapper 'generally' speaking especially when it comes to the hormone 'leptin.'

Leptin is pretty much the master key hormone that controls fat oxidation, metabolism, immune system, etc and plays a HUGE role especially as you get leaner.

When you are are very lean your body isn't worried about what good movies are coming out this weekend, no, its worried thats its near death doors and is starving to death.

So it does everything to hold on to whatever fat it can maintain and will regulate your hormones (like LEPTIN, thyroid, etc) to survive.

Your leptin drops in half (its even pitifully low once you get lean like say 6 ng/dL to 3 ng/dL. In order to bring this back up to that earlier baseline level, you either have to inject the stuff which Im sure must be at least several hundred dollars or do 'tricks' to bring back up. One trick is to eat a bunch of carbs to shoot insulin up (a mix of starches, sugars fits the bill nicely- or glucose, sucrose and a bit of fructose)

there are a bunch of studies where they fed tons of carbs/cals way over maintenance and the peeps didn't get fat as you would think.

Here is one study that goes plasma leptin levels to increase by 40% in a very short time frame (12 hours).

They are NECESSARY. You will notice that your body temp will get a bump back up right away, get more fuller, help with those sugary cravings, but most of all you will help bring up some of the helpful hormones that collapse as you diet.

Here is a glimpse of one older study that dealt with this which looks interesting…

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8923877

If you check most of the feedback when it comes to the different diet cycles whether its RFL, Flexible Dieting, UD2, etc…….there is a positive response both physiologically and psychology when a reefed is done.

Is there a way to screw up? I guess…like doing zero exercise for the whole diet time along with prior to the reefed and eating nothing but pure fructose as you need glucose to get to the fat cell by getting those muscles filled with glycogen in the first place.

Good luck with the diet and give refeeds a shot, they are fun.

Last edited by MrSkinnyFat : 05-21-2014 at 02:56 PM.
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  #7  
Unread 05-21-2014, 04:20 PM
Jonblood Jonblood is offline
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I'm not arguing the efficacy of refeeds, I'm on the same page as you. What i'm saying is that my refeeds as per Lyle's recommendations will be 5,350 cals.

Weekly maintenance = 22,400 cals
6 days at 20% deficit = 15,360 cals + refeed day (5,350 cals) = 20,710 cals
= 1,690 cal deficit for the week. That is half the recommended by most 3,500 cal deficit.

See where I'm going with this?
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  #8  
Unread 05-21-2014, 08:49 PM
Primalkid Primalkid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonblood View Post
I'm not arguing the efficacy of refeeds, I'm on the same page as you. What i'm saying is that my refeeds as per Lyle's recommendations will be 5,350 cals.

Weekly maintenance = 22,400 cals
6 days at 20% deficit = 15,360 cals + refeed day (5,350 cals) = 20,710 cals
= 1,690 cal deficit for the week. That is half the recommended by most 3,500 cal deficit.

See where I'm going with this?
The body is more complicated than napkin math. A more extreme example is in UD2.0 when carbloading with over 1kg of carbohydrates and you still end up burning fat. Physiology. I would recommend you give the diet a shot for a couple weeks and see how things go. If you need to lose weight fast than switch to a different program or simply reduce calories on dieting days further.
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  #9  
Unread 05-22-2014, 03:20 PM
MrSkinnyFat MrSkinnyFat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonblood View Post
I'm not arguing the efficacy of refeeds, I'm on the same page as you. What i'm saying is that my refeeds as per Lyle's recommendations will be 5,350 cals.

Weekly maintenance = 22,400 cals
6 days at 20% deficit = 15,360 cals + refeed day (5,350 cals) = 20,710 cals
= 1,690 cal deficit for the week. That is half the recommended by most 3,500 cal deficit.

See where I'm going with this?
What Primalkid said. I do get your point though under the face glycogen depletion, preventing DNL, keeping time very short where some of the carbs is lost through heat, getting a bump in metabolism higher which would skew the following days caloric requirement, and so forth…keeping track of weekly calories under certain manipulations through carbs won't be dead on accurate.

(excuse my run on sentences)

Its the same when people put a goal of losing a certain amount of fat per week by adjusting calories. While it is a good guide and of some use, its not always accurate.

I would say in general people lose fat non-linear despite keeping a close eye on calories.
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  #10  
Unread 05-27-2014, 05:40 PM
Jonblood Jonblood is offline
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Another question:
I'm cutting at 2,650 cals. On a Saturday or Sunday I'll go for a long bike ride for a few hours and burn around 1,000 calories. Should I eat 1,000 extra cals that day to match my goal of 2,650? Also, if I do that, does that negate the need of a refeed or will I then be doing two days of higher calories per week?
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