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  #1  
Unread 04-27-2017, 03:48 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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Default Reaching the holy grail: ripped, and look like you lift

If you've got a couple years good training under your belt, it's easy to look like you lift: if you hover between 15-20% body fat you're going to look pretty big and strong.

But in most cases, if the same person diets down to 10% or below, wearing clothes you'd never even know that they go to the gym.

We all want to reach that 10% ideal (for vain bastards) body fat, but even more ideally we also want to look like we lift. It's the holy grail of this entire thing.

I've always theorised that, for your average Joe, there's a certain threshold you have to cross. A certain lifting threshold. Once you've reached approximately THAT degree of muscularity, you'll still look built even at low bf%.

But what in the hell IS that threshold?

I thought maybe, being able to do FOR REPS:

1.5x body weight benching

2x body weight squatting

2.5x body weight deadlifting

All for at least 5 reps in good form.

Something like that, maybe.
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  #2  
Unread 04-27-2017, 08:07 AM
lylemcdonald lylemcdonald is offline
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I doubt it has anything to do with absolute strength per se but the reality is this: most naturals are not going to be big ehough to be lean and still look that big in clothes. When the 165 lb class is the big one in natural BB feds, unless you started big you're not getting there and being lean.
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  #3  
Unread 04-27-2017, 11:29 AM
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kyoun1e kyoun1e is offline
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I'd get fat as hell getting that strong.

And this is despite the fact that when bulking I'm very careful not going overboard on caloric surplus.
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  #4  
Unread 04-27-2017, 03:34 PM
lylemcdonald lylemcdonald is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcdonald View Post
I doubt it has anything to do with absolute strength per se but the reality is this: most naturals are not going to be big ehough to be lean and still look that big in clothes. When the 165 lb class is the big one in natural BB feds, unless you started big you're not getting there and being lean.
So you can either be big and burly or lean and look normal in street clothes.

Or take steroids.
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  #5  
Unread 04-28-2017, 05:27 AM
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kyoun1e kyoun1e is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcdonald View Post
So you can either be big and burly or lean and look normal in street clothes.

Or take steroids.
The sad truth.

One other option:

* Get lean and look normal in street clothes, but move somewhere where and obtain an occupation where you never need to wear a shirt.

Problem solved.
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  #6  
Unread 04-28-2017, 05:55 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyoun1e View Post
The sad truth.

One other option:

* Get lean and look normal in street clothes, but move somewhere where and obtain an occupation where you never need to wear a shirt.

Problem solved.

Or move to a country where most people are smaller than you, so you look HUGE.


I think unfortunately it probably is simply the case that most people just don't have the genetics to get big and very lean at the same time. It must be less than 5% who do. The rest, as Lyle said, will need some enhancement.
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  #7  
Unread 04-28-2017, 06:17 AM
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Hectic Hectic is offline
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I don't agree with this. Even as a natural it's not that hard to build traps/delts and triceps big enough to make it obvious you lift. Have a look at guys who have never lifted weights or done manual labour their arms look sickly thin in comparison.

I train with some young guys (25-30 yo) who have been training for 10 years, have great genetics and you would the they are on the juice if you didn't know they were naturals. It's a powerlifting gym where your deadlifts are not worth mentioning unless they are over 240.

The weights are heavy like BPP suggests in OP, probably even bigger than those numbers. And the workouts are very different from things familiar to this forum like GBR, because when you need to squat 4 sets of 180kg you need to do another 4 sets warming up.

It's just another world.

So yeah I think it's possible but it's like 10 years down the track doing the right thing.

I think once the back muscles start getting big enough it's pretty obvious you lift.

Some people probably dont have the genetics for it some people do. No need to be so pessimistic about it.

i think there's a lot of psychological barriers to weightlifting. Like I thought 120kg after 2 years training was a good deadlift until my friend lifted the same weight after two weeks. To be honest with myself I probably could have lifted it first day I started but I was scared of injury. I got my deadlift to 160 in the next session after seeing my friend (probably foolishly) lift 120 untrained.

Training for a couple of years when you are already 25 and spend the majority of the time cutting is nothing. Training for solid strength and size gains for 5 years mainly in a surplus is going to look a lot different.

Last edited by Hectic : 04-28-2017 at 06:23 AM.
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Unread 04-28-2017, 06:47 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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^^^

Lol that reminded me of when I was really proud of reaching a 110kg bench after years of work. Then a friend of mine started out (though he was 19) and, in 6 weeks, he was lifting 120!!


I think a factor you must not exclude, in the case of those hardcore power lifting gyms, is the issue of self-selection. It's generally only people with great genetics who stick around long enough in those places in the first place. In that sense, they're probably not a great reflection of what your average person can hope to achieve.

With that said, there is some value and truth in what you say about most people in commercial gyms and on the internet: they spend most their time cutting. This might obscure some realities on what people might otherwise be able to achieve. Maybe.

Last edited by BigPecsPeter : 04-28-2017 at 06:49 AM.
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  #9  
Unread 04-28-2017, 08:10 AM
lylemcdonald lylemcdonald is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hectic View Post
I don't agree with this. Even as a natural it's not that hard to build traps/delts and triceps big enough to make it obvious you lift. Have a look at guys who have never lifted weights or done manual labour their arms look sickly thin in comparison.

I train with some young guys (25-30 yo) who have been training for 10 years, have great genetics and you would the they are on the juice if you didn't know they were naturals. It's a powerlifting gym where your deadlifts are not worth mentioning unless they are over 240.

The weights are heavy like BPP suggests in OP, probably even bigger than those numbers. And the workouts are very different from things familiar to this forum like GBR, because when you need to squat 4 sets of 180kg you need to do another 4 sets warming up.

It's just another world.

So yeah I think it's possible but it's like 10 years down the track doing the right thing.

I think once the back muscles start getting big enough it's pretty obvious you lift.

Some people probably dont have the genetics for it some people do. No need to be so pessimistic about it.

i think there's a lot of psychological barriers to weightlifting. Like I thought 120kg after 2 years training was a good deadlift until my friend lifted the same weight after two weeks. To be honest with myself I probably could have lifted it first day I started but I was scared of injury. I got my deadlift to 160 in the next session after seeing my friend (probably foolishly) lift 120 untrained.

Training for a couple of years when you are already 25 and spend the majority of the time cutting is nothing. Training for solid strength and size gains for 5 years mainly in a surplus is going to look a lot different.
This has nothing to do with anything being discussed. And exceptions don't disprove a generality.

Are these guys super lean? No.
Go to a natural bodybuilding contest.

Ripped guys = 165 lbs.
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  #10  
Unread 04-28-2017, 12:06 PM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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I might also point out that often you find that a lot of said natural bodybuilders are considerably shorter than average for the general male population, so at 165 lbs some can look a lot bigger than a taller guy.

The winner of Mr Musclemania Universe 2013 trained at my local gym, and yes, he was huge, but I would also say that I believe his real height was no more than 5'7", if that...

EDIT: I think that guy's competition weight was like 185 lbs or something, so in that case even huger.

Last edited by BigPecsPeter : 04-28-2017 at 12:10 PM.
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