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  #1  
Unread 09-17-2011, 07:23 PM
Whatwutwat Whatwutwat is offline
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Default At what point does it become prudent to include speed sets?

In the context of someone with powerlifting related goals? I realise it's somewhat vague and dependent on the individual. Is it even necessary? Westside push their own agenda so often it's hard to wade through the BS.
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  #2  
Unread 09-17-2011, 07:43 PM
popupwindow popupwindow is offline
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What are you current stats (height, age, weight) and lifts?

A lot of westside stuff should be disregarded if you're not competing in geared PL (in both senses of the word) as it's pretty much a separate sport to raw PL, and most of westside's innovations have been around optimising the use of gear, rather than actually getting stronger. If you compete in gear, westside is great, but if you're raw, a lot of the stuff simply doesn't apply (eg. super wide stance box squats, endless lockout bench work etc).

It's also been thrown around that if you can do 60% of your 1RM for 3 reps in 3 seconds that your speed is okay for a given lift, if you can't, it may be a weakness you need to work on.

Bill Starr used to have some good ideas for speed work for raw PL stuff, things like power snatches and power cleans to boost your deadlift on your light pulling days, heavy DLs or rack/haltings on your heavy pulling days, along with stuff like push presses etc as speed work for your bench.
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  #3  
Unread 09-17-2011, 08:12 PM
Whatwutwat Whatwutwat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popupwindow View Post
What are you current stats (height, age, weight) and lifts?
6"0, 20yo, 181lbs.

SQ 370
DL 360 (been ridding myself of form flaws)
BP 220

For the record though, this was just a question out of curiosity and for future reference. I'm currently seeing good progress on a TTM set up and don't intend to change anything whilst its still working.
Quote:
It's also been thrown around that if you can do 60% of your 1RM for 3 reps in 3 seconds that your speed is okay for a given lift, if you can't, it may be a weakness you need to work on.
Interesting, something I'll have to test at some point. Doesn't sound like I'd struggle with it though.
Quote:
Bill Starr used to have some good ideas for speed work for raw PL stuff, things like power snatches and power cleans to boost your deadlift on your light pulling days, heavy DLs or rack/haltings on your heavy pulling days, along with stuff like push presses etc as speed work for your bench.
I read some very similar ideas in Practical Programming, unsurprising really considering Rip's influences. So, you would put lift specific work i.e. speed benching 8x3 @60%, into the category of work that only holds real benefit in geared lifting?
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  #4  
Unread 09-17-2011, 08:32 PM
Donald Lee Donald Lee is offline
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Look over at some of the old threads on www.reactivetrainingsystems.com. Mike Tuscherer talks a bit about when and how to include speed work. He advocates heavy speed work and only including it when or if you need it.
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  #5  
Unread 09-17-2011, 08:34 PM
popupwindow popupwindow is offline
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I think if you're not a naturally explosive lifter, some speed work can help teach you to lift more explosively which is always beneficial, hence the 3 rep test to judge explosiveness. It also has benefit as you get extra practice on the lifts without going heavy all the time, so your joints get spared a bit. Even bands/chains etc can be useful for teaching people how to lift explosively (although things like power cleans do too), and can be good if they match your strength curve on a lift. Just be careful of following the advice of WSB fans who don't understand the difference between raw PL and geared PL.

If you want to really succeed at PL, you'll likely need to gain at least another 40lbs or so at a minimum.
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Unread 09-17-2011, 08:50 PM
Whatwutwat Whatwutwat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Lee View Post
Look over at some of the old threads on www.reactivetrainingsystems.com. Mike Tuscherer talks a bit about when and how to include speed work. He advocates heavy speed work and only including it when or if you need it.
Thanks, I'll check it out. I'm buying the Reactive Training Manual sometime soon as well, Tuchscherer's a boss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by popupwindow View Post
I think if you're not a naturally explosive lifter, some speed work can help teach you to lift more explosively which is always beneficial, hence the 3 rep test to judge explosiveness. It also has benefit as you get extra practice on the lifts without going heavy all the time, so your joints get spared a bit. Even bands/chains etc can be useful for teaching people how to lift explosively (although things like power cleans do too), and can be good if they match your strength curve on a lift. Just be careful of following the advice of WSB fans who don't understand the difference between raw PL and geared PL.
Thanks, you've given me some ideas. I'll try the 3 rep test at some point and, dependent on results, may incorporate it into my TTM test day. I'm also reminded I need to get my @ss in gear and watch some of Pendlay's videos on PC form so I can finally learn and use the thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by popupwindow View Post
If you want to really succeed at PL, you'll likely need to gain at least another 40lbs or so at a minimum.
I doubt I'll ever really succeed at PL. Currently, my interest is borderline recreational. 1300lb+ total at sub 10%'d be pretty cool though.
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  #7  
Unread 09-19-2011, 04:53 AM
cxw cxw is offline
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Which is more important - sub 10% or 1300?
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  #8  
Unread 09-19-2011, 03:02 PM
Whatwutwat Whatwutwat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cxw View Post
Which is more important - sub 10% or 1300?
I see no reason I can't have both.
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  #9  
Unread 09-19-2011, 05:23 PM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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If strong but slow, do speed work.
If fast but weak, do strength work
If balanced, do both.
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  #10  
Unread 09-22-2011, 01:55 PM
Whatwutwat Whatwutwat is offline
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So I don't clutter the forum more, opinions on this routine?

It's for when I decide to foray into conjugate periodization/get serious in powerlifting, pretty much stolen from some old stuff Lyle wrote up on a forum a while back with a few tweaks for preference.

Monday: Bench + Assistance
Work up over a number of sets to a max xRM. Keep increasing until failure. Depending on where/how you fail do:

Off the chest – Paused Bench.
3” off the chest – 2 Board Press.
Midpoint – Floor Press
Lockout – Pin Press

Work for 2s, 3s or 5s. Can be skipped if I'm wiped after bench.

Auxiliary:
OHP 1x8
Pendlay Rows 4x8
Face Pulls 3x12
Triz

Tuesday: Squat + Assistance
Work up over a number of sets to a max xRM. Keep increasing until failure. Depending on where/how you fail do:

Hole – Pause Squat/Bottom Position Squat.
Midpoint – Above Parallel Box/GM.
2s, 3s or 5s.

(not sure on these yet, may cycle them)

Auxiliary:
GHR 4x10
Weighted Crunch 2x8
Weighted Back Ext. 2x8

Thursday: Assistance Bench Day

Work up over a number of sets to a max xRM in the assistance exercise decided on Monday. Warm up with regular bench to groove the movement pattern.

Auxiliary:
BW Chins 3xF
Pendlay Rows 4x8
Face Pulls 3x12
Biz+Triz

Friday: DL + Assistance
Work up over a number of sets to a max xRM. Keep increasing until failure. Depending on where/how you fail do:

Bottom: Sumo
Midpoint: GM
Lockout: Band DL

Auxiliary:
Light Squats 2x5
GHR 4x10
Weighted Crunch 2x8
Weighted Back Ext. 2x8

xRM=

Wk 1: 4-5RM (potentially skip dependent on recovery)
Wk 2: 3RM
Wk 3: 2RM
Wk 4: 1RM

After the 3-4 weeks, a 1-2 week deload using speed work and occasional 5RMs to maintain heavy loading. Squat is 10x2 , Bench is 10x3, DL is 15x1. Done with a weight you can lift explosively throughout all sets. Then repeat.
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