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  #1  
Unread 01-02-2012, 06:47 AM
\/ictor \/ictor is offline
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Default From strength training to endurance training

I have been lifting weights for a several years right now and I am almost near my maximum muscular potential. Strength and muscle mass gains are really slow (1-2lbs per year). The only way now to make progress is to make use of periodization, block training, specialization/maintenance cycles etc. Iím satisfied with the shape and strength stats Iíve realized so far, and I think itís time to start with another project.

I always had some interests in speed skating and running. In the past I did some running contests and I would like to specialize in one of them to reach my maximum potential there. My only concern is that I have to give up some of my muscle mass and strength stats. So my question is, is there a possibility that I could maintain most of my strength and muscle mass while training for a running or speed skating contest? Like doing a full body workout 1-2 times per week for maintenance, or will it be a pipe dream?
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  #2  
Unread 01-02-2012, 11:28 AM
FutureisNow FutureisNow is offline
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I would like to specialize in one of them to reach my maximum potential there
In general though it's going to be easier to maintain existing gains than make new gains. You won't be able to acheive your ultimate maximum endurance potential doing this, however you will be able to acheive your maximum endurance potential given your decision.

Ideally you could achieve muscles with blended characteristics, manifesting more fast twitch oxidative-gylcotic fibers (FOG). Those would enable you to have good hypertrophy and endurance together. Having the good of both worlds does seem possible, though not the best perhaps. There is specific training for acheiving FOG fibers as well.

From a running perspective, the closer the weight is to center of gravity, the less impact it will have on economy. So unneccessary weight in the legs and arms, especially forearms and calfs(gastroc), will be hurt you the most, according to this theory.

I'm not sure how that works in stating though. Lyle has commented that it's mostly anaerobic. Even long distance skaters are pretty massive in the leg department, from what I recall from watching.
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  #3  
Unread 01-03-2012, 03:08 AM
\/ictor \/ictor is offline
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Originally Posted by FutureisNow View Post
In general though it's going to be easier to maintain existing gains than make new gains. You won't be able to acheive your ultimate maximum endurance potential doing this, however you will be able to acheive your maximum endurance potential given your decision.

Ideally you could achieve muscles with blended characteristics, manifesting more fast twitch oxidative-gylcotic fibers (FOG). Those would enable you to have good hypertrophy and endurance together. Having the good of both worlds does seem possible, though not the best perhaps. There is specific training for acheiving FOG fibers as well.

From a running perspective, the closer the weight is to center of gravity, the less impact it will have on economy. So unneccessary weight in the legs and arms, especially forearms and calfs(gastroc), will be hurt you the most, according to this theory.

I'm not sure how that works in stating though. Lyle has commented that it's mostly anaerobic. Even long distance skaters are pretty massive in the leg department, from what I recall from watching.
Thanks for your input. You mean type II A fibers? It sounds reasonable with the leverages. I forgot to tell what kind of distance I’m interested in. But I was thinking to train for the 400m, 800m or 1500m run. The 100 and 200m run also sounds interesting. So some of my strength and muscle mass might be relevant. Inline skating would be a recreational thing I guess, because I can’t specialize in both.
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  #4  
Unread 01-03-2012, 03:15 AM
cxw cxw is offline
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Is there much chance for you to compete in 400m, 800m or 1500m where you are?
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  #5  
Unread 01-03-2012, 03:38 AM
\/ictor \/ictor is offline
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Before I started with lifting weights I did some field hockey, soccer, running etc. I did it a lot and was one of the 'fast guys' out there. My endurance was decent, but not the best out there. But that's because I never did some specialization. So I don't really know what my potential is. But I'm considering it to find out in the near future. There is an athletics club in my region, so I think I will attend to it when Iíve wrapped around my strength training period.
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  #6  
Unread 01-03-2012, 05:08 AM
popupwindow popupwindow is offline
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Can you list your current stats like age, height, weight, bf%, some of your lifts etc?

Going to endurance training for someone who's maxed out their strength/muscle potential (assuming based on casey butts muscle/1rm calculator or something, plus slow gains?) for someone who is 170lbs with 6 inch wrists and 8 inch ankles is very different than for someone who is 220lbs with 8 inch wrists and 10 inch ankles.
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  #7  
Unread 01-03-2012, 05:40 AM
\/ictor \/ictor is offline
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Originally Posted by popupwindow View Post
Can you list your current stats like age, height, weight, bf%, some of your lifts etc?
I'm 23 years old (almost 24), my height is 178cm and my weight is 80kg around 7-8% body fat. I can squat 1x250kg, bench press 1x130-135kg and deadlift 1x260kg. Other movements: chins 8xbw+47.5kg, full front squat 5x160kg and overhead press 8x70kg. I know the ratio between my squat and deadlift is a bit odd, but I can assure you that I'm breaking par. I have strong legs.

Quote:
Going to endurance training for someone who's maxed out their strength/muscle potential (assuming based on casey butts muscle/1rm calculator or something, plus slow gains?) for someone who is 170lbs with 6 inch wrists and 8 inch ankles is very different than for someone who is 220lbs with 8 inch wrists and 10 inch ankles.
I used the guidelines of Martin. I had also read the article of Lyle. According to Martin's formula I could achieve a bodyweight of 78kg dehydrated around 5-6% body fat. That means that there is only room for 1-2kg of muscle mass before hitting my plateau (if I look at lean body mass). And because I'm gaining only 1-2lbs of muscle mass per year now, I think I'm finally there. Strength gains are also marginal.

I'm satisfied with the results so far and I don't think it's worth my time to spend 1-3 years to milk out the last bit of progress. I would rather maintain it and try something else, so I could make a decent progress with it the coming years. The only thing is that I want to maintain most of my muscle mass and strength.
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  #8  
Unread 01-03-2012, 08:28 AM
FutureisNow FutureisNow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by \/ictor View Post
Thanks for your input. You mean type II A fibers? It sounds reasonable with the leverages. I forgot to tell what kind of distance I’m interested in. But I was thinking to train for the 400m, 800m or 1500m run. The 100 and 200m run also sounds interesting. So some of my strength and muscle mass might be relevant. Inline skating would be a recreational thing I guess, because I can’t specialize in both.
When you said endurance, I thought you meant 5K, 10K, half-marathon, etc! 400s and 800s are walks in the park in terms of endurance, and you can probably rely on your muscles to power you most of the way through.
You'll need some aerobic power and capacity, more in the 800 obviously,
but you may be able to develop it without hindering your size greatly.

The 1500 is more aerobic and the guys that do well are going to be
highly trained aerobically. Lots of more long slow distance is involved.

LSD is not terribly catabolic. The reason guys at longer distances don't have big muscles, as Lyle pointed out, is that they a) don't need them and b) don't train for them and they c) would find them counterproductive.
You probably would too.

You may find it hard to compete though, unless there is a sprint track
club in your area. Most public runs are longer 5K and up. I've only seen a few 1500/mile races offered in my area and most of them are invitationals
for elites. Good luck in yours!

P.S. Yes, type 2A = FOG

Last edited by FutureisNow : 01-03-2012 at 08:33 AM.
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  #9  
Unread 01-03-2012, 08:41 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cxw View Post
Is there much chance for you to compete in 400m, 800m or 1500m where you are?
As FiN points out below, there really isn't much of a circuit for recreational sprint running. What is out there is usually masters track for guys who were track athletes in their youth. At least in the US, about the shortest distance I've ever seen held on any sort of public level is 5k. And it just goes up from there.
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  #10  
Unread 01-03-2012, 04:14 PM
\/ictor \/ictor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureisNow View Post
You may find it hard to compete though, unless there is a sprint track
club in your area. Most public runs are longer 5K and up. I've only seen a few 1500/mile races offered in my area and most of them are invitationals
for elites. Good luck in yours!

P.S. Yes, type 2A = FOG
Thanks! In my area it's possible to practice those distances. I thought it was naturally that you could practice those distances on every athletic club. Seems not.
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