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  #11  
Unread 04-20-2012, 09:38 AM
Eloan Eloan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
Plenty of fat as hell weightlifters.

And most distance runners don't lift weights because it hurts their performance. And the argument is still stupid for the reason that

Training for a marathon (i.e. 80-120 miles per week running) is not synonymous with low intensity aerobic training (i.e. 30-45 minutes 3X/week).

Not to mention that most of the 'sprint' training programs (i.e. HIIT) have NOTHING in common with how short sprinters train. A 100m guy would never do something like 5X60 seconds/60 seconds rest. It'd be more like 5X40m with a 10' rest.

Not to mention that a lot of sprint training takes it out of your legs and you fail to recover sufficient for lifting weights. Which PROPERLY APPROACHED low intensity training does not.

&c. This is all in various series on the main site.
Yes, I'm fine with all that.

The point I wanted to make is, that if you train like a sprinter like "5X40m with a 10' rest" plus strength training you will become more muscular than by training like a long distance runner.
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  #12  
Unread 04-20-2012, 10:15 AM
lostmyoldaccount lostmyoldaccount is offline
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Here's a really interesting blog: http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.com/
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Half-way measures don't get very far. You can only do one thing well at a time. Trying to gain muscle while losing fat will result in failure.

Get to 10% bodyfat first while lifting weights heavy 3x a week with reduced volume. Two weeks maintenance. Bulk up slowly (1 lb weight gain per week max), focus on getting stronger, measure body composition changes often.
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  #13  
Unread 04-20-2012, 10:20 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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Originally Posted by Eloan View Post
Yes, I'm fine with all that.

The point I wanted to make is, that if you train like a sprinter like "5X40m with a 10' rest" plus strength training you will become more muscular than by training like a long distance runner.
Way to tear down that strawman. Because it's not a point that anybody is contesting. Nor is anybody arguing that DISTANCE RUNNING is the way to a muscular physique. Rather, you've taken the already stupid argument and made it dumber by reversing it to something nobody would ever claim in the first place.

Mind you, who are the most muscular and leanest of all: bodybuilders
Who lift weights
and 999/1000 do low intensity cardio

/end.
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  #14  
Unread 04-20-2012, 10:23 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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Long distance endurance athlete

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  #15  
Unread 04-20-2012, 05:54 PM
Zé Apelido Zé Apelido is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloan View Post
The point I wanted to make is, that if you train like a sprinter like "5X40m with a 10' rest" plus strength training you will become more muscular than by training like a long distance runner.
You're simply wrong. It's not surprising, most people have no experience or idea of how to create a routine that involves muscle building and endurance. Most people are worried about "optimal" rate of muscle gains, citing papers which generally only show that muscle protein synthesis is limited when you combine cardio+weights on the same day. So do them on different days. Neither the sprinting nor the long distance running has much to do with muscle building, it's the weightlifting.

Whatever you want to do outside of muscle building, just make sure you eat enough during / after so you don't break down much muscle. And rest.
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  #16  
Unread 04-20-2012, 06:05 PM
Zé Apelido Zé Apelido is offline
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The sprinter / marathoner comparison is just another correlation / causation fail. You can be jacked and have great endurance - you just won't be competitive. You're more likely to be competitive in sprinting.

At the elite level of running, an athlete's muscle mass must all be functional, or else it's dead weight that slows you down. Sprinters are trying to generate as much impulse / bodyweight, but sometimes larger muscles can generate more useful force to propel them faster. But it is not necessary, so there's variability, and some sprinter's biomechanics will change for the better with larger muscles while others will worsen.

Endurance runners aren't trying to generate as much impulse as possible, extra muscle mass isn't needed. Extra mitochondria are. There's still variability between runners, but its on a smaller scale.
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  #17  
Unread 04-21-2012, 09:38 PM
FutureisNow FutureisNow is offline
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Here's a really interesting blog: http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.com/
That blog is idiotic. Of course Nadal grew from a 16 year old. And Murray went through a big strength and conditioning phase a few years ago which also raised his ranking. Serena has always been big all over. Agassi was in constant pain towards the end of his career and did weights, so perhaps may have.

Pseudoephedrine is common in cold medications and not proof of anything.

I am not saying there are zero players using, but unlikely among the top tier and for recovery if anything. Muscle size has never mapped to success in tennis. Djokovic is tiny but almost unbeatable lately.

So I think the whole notion of a big problem is inane.

Last edited by FutureisNow : 04-21-2012 at 09:41 PM.
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  #18  
Unread 04-25-2012, 04:08 AM
cxw cxw is offline
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Agassi admitted that he failed a drug test, but the ITF decided to find him not guilty.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/ten...ory?id=4600027
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  #19  
Unread 04-25-2012, 04:09 AM
cxw cxw is offline
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Edit: double post
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  #20  
Unread 04-25-2012, 07:00 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureisNow View Post
That blog is idiotic. Of course Nadal grew from a 16 year old. And Murray went through a big strength and conditioning phase a few years ago which also raised his ranking. Serena has always been big all over. Agassi was in constant pain towards the end of his career and did weights, so perhaps may have.

Pseudoephedrine is common in cold medications and not proof of anything.

I am not saying there are zero players using, but unlikely among the top tier and for recovery if anything. Muscle size has never mapped to success in tennis. Djokovic is tiny but almost unbeatable lately.
You're still making the incorrect assumption that steroids are only used for increasing muscle mass; this isn't the 70's and drug users can be jacked as much as they can be tiny. They also help with recovery, and joint health. Which is CRITICAL for a sport like tennis where the competition schedule is beating people up.
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