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  #1  
Unread 11-08-2011, 06:38 PM
Raidho Raidho is offline
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Default Programming for lean massgaining for MMA-athlete?

[Sorry, the title is a bit misleading. I realized that my question is rather on "Programming weighttraining for cutting combined with MMA-training"]

Hi

I need some advice on creating a weightlifting routine that goes well with my MMA training.
I train MMA two to three times a week, Monday, Wednesday, Thursday.
I Intermittently Fast and love it. For about a year I have been using a low-volume, high intensity RPT routine designed by Martin Berkhan at Leangains, to preserve muscle-mass during dieting.
The routine consists of weightlifting three times a week splitted into back/shoulders, chest/arms, legs/abs. Ive been doing good, adding weight to the bar consistently or at least maintaining it, despite being at a caloriedeficit. My musclemass haven't grown much, but my strenght have increased, so the muscle I have should atleast be well maintained.

But now things have changed. Recently my joints and muscles, especially around my elbows and shoulders have started to ache a lot during MMA-training.

I love my weightlifting routine, and I love training MMA, but the two of them, atleast at the current training frequency, isn't doable.
My training-schedule is currently this

Monday late evening MMA 1 hour 15 min + 45 min-1 hour of brisk walking
Tuesday afternoon Legs/abs + 45 min- 1 hour of brisk walking
Wednesday late evening MMA 1 hour 15 min + 45 min-1 hour of brisk walking
Tuesday late evening MMA 1 hour 15 min + 45 min- 1 hour of brisk walking
Friday afternoon Chest/arms+ 45 min- 1 hour of brisk walking
Saturday rest, brisk walking 1-2 hours
Sunday Back/shoulders + 45 min- 1 hour of brisk walking

I need some advice how to better program my weightlifting so that it doesn't interfere with my MMA training and cause overtraining. I still want to cut some bodyfat, I'm at 81 kg right now, and my goal is 78 kg, so 3 kg of fatloss left. After that I intend to start a lean massgaining phase (finaly!) but thats another story.

My legs and back has never hurt or felt worn out during MMA-training, but my arms and shoulders have hurt pretty bad afterwards..
I would really appreciate some advice!
Kind regards
Johannes

Last edited by Raidho : 11-08-2011 at 06:43 PM. Reason: the title is a bit misleading..
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  #2  
Unread 11-08-2011, 06:56 PM
Bonham Bonham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raidho View Post
Recently my joints and muscles, especially around my elbows and shoulders have started to ache a lot during MMA-training.

My training-schedule is currently this

Monday late evening MMA 1 hour 15 min + 45 min-1 hour of brisk walking
Tuesday afternoon Legs/abs + 45 min- 1 hour of brisk walking
Wednesday late evening MMA 1 hour 15 min + 45 min-1 hour of brisk walking
Tuesday late evening MMA 1 hour 15 min + 45 min- 1 hour of brisk walking
Friday afternoon Chest/arms+ 45 min- 1 hour of brisk walking
Saturday rest, brisk walking 1-2 hours
Sunday Back/shoulders + 45 min- 1 hour of brisk walking
If you have been keeping the above schedule for a year then you are probably over trained. (could also be the connective tissue needs some time to get used to being stretched and pulled)

Does Martin realize that you are doing MMA along with his weightlifting routine?

Best guess would be you need rest.
If MMA training a bigger priority than lifting then would drop the lifting for a week and just rest on those days. After that week see how things feel and go from there.

Have you also been dieting for the entire year as well?
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  #3  
Unread 11-08-2011, 07:04 PM
Raidho Raidho is offline
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Oops, sorry for the inaccuracy. I have been weightlifting like this for a year, but started training MMA a month ago. So no fault on Martin's behalf, this "almost every-day-training" is my on mischief =)

Yeah, I think its the connective tissues thats protesting aswell. So a lower frequency of weighttraining (alternatly a higher volume/lower intensity with little rest to bump up the GH to boost connective tissue repair and build up) wouldn't do the trick you think?

And yes, Ive been dieting on and off flexible for the last 6 months, going from 85 kg to 81 kg and aiming at 78 kg before the 15 th of january.

Last edited by Raidho : 11-08-2011 at 07:08 PM.
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  #4  
Unread 11-08-2011, 07:05 PM
sethreidnz sethreidnz is offline
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Also you should just cut out the brisk walking at least on Saturday so you have a complete day of rest. Also consider not doing brisk walking at all if you are already doing 1h15 training outside of it. Don't think it is necessary really to be doing and hour brisk walking everyday if you are also training on those days.
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  #5  
Unread 11-08-2011, 07:25 PM
Raidho Raidho is offline
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Well, up until now I have done this amount of brisk walking since, in my experience, I seem to stop losing fat when I drop the walking. I doesn't seem to matter if I'm superstrict with my nutrition.
I'm not really gaining weight, but I'm not losing it either when I drop brisk walking... Any thoughts?
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  #6  
Unread 11-08-2011, 07:33 PM
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Roos44 Roos44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raidho View Post

And yes, Ive been dieting on and off flexible for the last 6 months, going from 85 kg to 81 kg and aiming at 78 kg before the 15 th of january.
What is going on January 15?

It kind of seems like you trying to achieve multiple goals at once:
1. Build strength
2. Lose weight
3. Improve MMA skills/endurance

Depending on the January 15th date, pick which of those goals are the most important and focus on that. So for example if it is a fight then just do some maintenance lifting couple times a week and focus on skills/endurance. Then again maybe Im just stating the obvious.

Last edited by Roos44 : 11-08-2011 at 07:36 PM.
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  #7  
Unread 11-08-2011, 07:45 PM
Raidho Raidho is offline
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Well, to be honest my goals would be

1. Lose fat
2. Keep muscle mass and strength
3. Improve skill/endurance

15 of january is nothing special except that I start rehearsing a play (I'm an actor) in another town and will have to do a lot more traveling and also need to focus on the job, so Id prefer to be done with dieting and thereby getting rid of the mind-slowing effect of dieting, and start a slow bulk by then!

Are the three goals above competing really? I want to lose fat, but still maintain muscle mass.
If I would just eat at a very slight deficit, except for weight-training days where I eat at maintenance, and let the rest of the deficit come from MMA-training, and cut back the weight-training to two sessions, do you think that would cut it? Or are the three goals to competing to achieve all at once?
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  #8  
Unread 11-08-2011, 08:04 PM
Bonham Bonham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raidho View Post
Oops, sorry for the inaccuracy. I have been weightlifting like this for a year, but started training MMA a month ago. So no fault on Martin's behalf, this "almost every-day-training" is my on mischief =)

Yeah, I think its the connective tissues thats protesting aswell. So a lower frequency of weighttraining (alternatly a higher volume/lower intensity with little rest to bump up the GH to boost connective tissue repair and build up) wouldn't do the trick you think?

And yes, Ive been dieting on and off flexible for the last 6 months, going from 85 kg to 81 kg and aiming at 78 kg before the 15 th of january.
FWIW I would recommend the following:

1. Drop the weight lifting (you have built yourself up for almost a year, enjoy the benefits)
2. Concentrate on your MMA training
3. Keep your walks (as you seem to mentally need them)
4. Do a modified EOD type diet with more cals on your MMA days.
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  #9  
Unread 11-08-2011, 08:51 PM
Raidho Raidho is offline
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But I dont want to drop the weights altogether, Id rather keep them but in that case lift much less frequently, like once every 5-7 day.

For instance Tuesday-Saturday-Friday. So on every other Tuesday Ill have a Lowerbody weighttraining day, and the same Saturday I have a Upper body day, and the other Saturday I have a Fullbody workout.
So instead of weighttraining 6 times i a two week period, Id weight train 3 times.

Monday MMA
Tuesday Lower
Wednesday MMA
Thursday MMA
Friday rest
Saturday Upper
Sunday rest

Monday MMA
Tuesday rest
Wednesday MMA
Thursday MMA
Friday rest
Saturday midday Fullbody
Sunday Rest

Do you think Id get enough recovery (remember Im dieting=recovery deficit) on this schedule to
1. Lose fat
2. Maintain muscle
3. Not being overtrained in the MMA (tendons, ligament, connective tissues)
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  #10  
Unread 11-08-2011, 09:15 PM
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Roos44 Roos44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raidho View Post
Well, to be honest my goals would be

1. Lose fat
2. Keep muscle mass and strength
3. Improve skill/endurance

15 of january is nothing special except that I start rehearsing a play (I'm an actor) in another town and will have to do a lot more traveling and also need to focus on the job, so Id prefer to be done with dieting and thereby getting rid of the mind-slowing effect of dieting, and start a slow bulk by then!

Are the three goals above competing really? I want to lose fat, but still maintain muscle mass.
If I would just eat at a very slight deficit, except for weight-training days where I eat at maintenance, and let the rest of the deficit come from MMA-training, and cut back the weight-training to two sessions, do you think that would cut it? Or are the three goals to competing to achieve all at once?
A couple of articles that may be helpful:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/qa.html

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...o-much-qa.html

It seems that your putting a good deal of stress on your body and if reducing fat is goal 1, that stress could be affecting your achieving it specially on top a long term dieting. A couple days a week weights will keep your strength is your hitting good micros. I suspect that your MMA workouts are pretty endurance oriented, if so you may not need so much of the brisk walking.

Or, more likely a smarter route, just take Bonham's advice.

Good luck on the new acting gig.

Last edited by Roos44 : 11-08-2011 at 09:19 PM.
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