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Unread 07-20-2009, 10:13 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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I wanted the new issue of Toyfare. Funniest writing on the planet.
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Unread 07-20-2009, 10:33 AM
PeyZS PeyZS is offline
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lol nice

next time you're there pick up the "Hush" graphic novels (Batman)

guaranteed to change your life

Batman is carrying 200 lbs LBM in that series, easy
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Unread 07-20-2009, 10:36 AM
lylemcd's Avatar
lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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I haven't read a single comic book since Cerebus FINALLY ended a bunch of years ago. I have 6 boxes worth back in Nashville in the basement.
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Unread 07-20-2009, 10:38 AM
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Inque Inque is offline
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Originally Posted by Bodybuildingbrat View Post
Has anyone seen Havoc from PrimaForce?

If not, here is a link

I am a 25 year old female thinking about taking this. I am thinking of trying 4 week cycles. (1 pill per day = 10mg)

Do you think side-effects would be severe? And can this have a permanent effect on my health/body?

I've read that with females you can do small amounts of certain hormones and not see adverse side-effects if taken in proper dosage. I've read that the Methyl in this is even lower in side effects than Anavar would be. Any advice?
Androgens for women is a slippery slope due to the potential for virilization (deepening voice, body hair growth, clit enlargment, devoloping a male looking jaw)

I really really wouldn't mess with it if I was you. Theres a really good chance you could make yourself more masculine and NEVER be able to go back.
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Unread 07-20-2009, 10:39 AM
lylemcd's Avatar
lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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And brandt's physique is not that out of control to require it. I'm quite sure she used something (most likely clen but possibly a mild anabolic) but she wasn't freaky huge or lean.
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Unread 07-21-2009, 04:03 PM
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Bodybuildingbrat Bodybuildingbrat is offline
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Originally Posted by jc View Post
so what are your current stats? I am interested simply because you are think of going on. are you at the end of your genetic rope or do you know?
Dunno about the end of my genetic rope. I had gotten down to about 15% BF... about 1.5 months outside of contest and tore my meniscus. Took me about a year to really be able to get back into lifting. Then some crap happened with my job, didn't have time to plan meals, workout etc. Just worked all day, 2 jobs. Have finally been able to really get back into it now. After 3 years. I am back down to 19-20% BF... have been going hard now for about 4 months.

Mostly, I am looking for some faster results. I have tried UD2(which worked fine, just REALLY slow), tried PSMF... lost too much weight on that for my liking. I want to achieve a Monica Brant look, and unsure of how to do that without testing the waters with some supplementation. (You really don't think she used much more than Clen? She just gets so freaky lean at contest. What is a mild anabolic that isn't a "steroid?").

From everything I have read... 10mg ED or 10mg EOD shouldn't cause virilization. I would only do say 4 weeks cycles, nothing big. But I am still very nervous. From what I have read there have been very low side-effects reported in females, and anything that has been reported went back to normal after use was stopped.

Here's an article I found....

How can Epistane be used?

Epistane can be used in many ways. A lot of people run it alone with good results. Ology's "getfitdoc" has gained ~15lbs from his latest cycle. It can also be used at the beginning or end of a cycle, just as any other oral is used.

If you are running this with long esters, such as Test e, you could run it at the beginning to help kick-start your cycle, or save it for the last four weeks to get you a boost at the end of your cycle. It will help to shed some water weight before coming off, and getting your estrogen under better control right before PCT starts.

No matter what way you use it, the dosing is up to you. My advice is to start low, and see how your body reacts. People have seen results from as low as 20mg per week, but the average dose is 30-40mg/week. Like any oral, this should not be taken for more than 4-6 weeks.

Sample Stand Alone Cycle:

Week 1: 30mg/day
Week 2: 30mg/day
Week 3: 30mg/day
Week 4: 40mg/day


Week 1: 40mg (start at 10mg first day and move up 10mg each day)
Week 2: 40mg
Week 3: 40mg
Week 4: 40mg

Here is an example of two very useful ways to take it on a Test E cycle.

Cycle 1:
Week 1-4: Epistane (See above for dosing)
Week 1-10: Test E
PCT 2 weeks after last Test E dose

Cycle 2:
Week 1-10: Test E
Week 9-12: Epistane (see above for dosing)
*The goal here is to start epistane exactly 2 weeks before your LAST Test E injection. Take epistane for 4 weeks, last the 2 weeks that you are not injecting the test is still in your system. Start PCT the DAY AFTER your last epistane dosing, which should also be EXACTLY TWO WEEKS AFTER you last Test E dosing.

Do I need to do a PCT with Epistane?

YES. Proper PCT needs to be ran just like any other cycle.

Epistane Side Effects

Like any other oral compound, some damage will be done to your lipid profile while you're taking this. The advantage that Epistane has over other orals, is that your body can recover from the lipid profile issues very shortly after you stop taking Epistane. To help with this while on cycle, I personally recommend Milk Thistle and NAC, or look into Anabolic Innovations product Cycle Support. I believe at BN and NP you can find these in a package and save some money.

Many people who worry about their hairline don't need to worry while on Epistane. It is not a DHT derivative and is NOT hard on your hairline.

What are the benefits?

Most people experience lean muscle gain when taking this. Most people who have used both Anavar and Epistane will say that they have very positive effects. The two are not similar chemically, but very similar with the positive effects it will have on your body.

It also works very well as an anti-estrogen. should NOT be used during PCT, but people who take it while taking other compounds notice great anti-estrogenic properties (loss of bloating, gyno reduction, acne reduction, etc).

From IronAddict:

Epistane is one of the newest designer steroids on the market today, and it is gaining attention very quickly. Epistane is actually a methylated version of the controlled substance Epitiostanol (2,3-Epithio-5-androstan-17-ol), which was created in the 1960's and used as a treatment for breast cancer. Since the only place Epitiostanol is only availabe at this time is in japan, chemists added a methyl group to the compund and the final product was a substance now known as Epistane. Epistane is a sulfur containing steroid which is known to have strong and long lasting anti-estrogenic activity as well as weak androgenic and mytropic activities.

What you can expect?

Since it is designed to be anti-estrogenic you can expect very dry gains from this compound. Epistane has low androgenic to anabolic activity. This meaning that it is much more anabolic then androgenic. Thus making sides very minimal to non existant from this substance. Also one of the great properties of this substance is that it does a great job in keeping the natural suppression of the gonads away. Since it has anti-estrogenic properties it keeps your LH levels elevated and it is also said both through science and human trial that epistane may have the ability to reduce gyno. This is still a widely debated outcome of epistane but is actually showing more and more positive results as it becomes more popular. Even though users will see dry gains on epistane it does not mean that it would be any insufficient for a bulking cycle. In fact it would be beneficial because it would generate lean gains. Through research it is reported that most users who have taken this substance have gained anywhere from 5-12 lbs in a 3-5 week cycle. Now in my opinion epistane would be better in a cutting cycle to keep the body dry while preserving and potentially add more lean muscle tissue.

People also experience a libido increase. Granted if you are stacking this with other compounds it is not guaranteed. The parent compound of Epistane is epitiostanol. This drug is used in japan as a libido increaser. Here is a study on the parent compound epitiostanol.

[A case of advanced breast cancer successfully tre...[Gan To Kagaku Ryoho. 1988] - PubMed Result

A patient with stage IV advanced breast cancer with multiple metastasis (bones of the whole body, lungs) were treated by ovariectomy, administration of an non-steroidal antiestrogen (tamoxifen) and mild chemotherapeutic drugs, with favorable results. After four years, however, the patient had a relapse of the cancer. A steroidal antiestrogen (epitiostanol) was then administered with satisfactory results. When a breast cancer relapse occurs in patients once treated successfully with endocrinotherapy, a different form of endocrinotherapy should be tried. There is a possibility that the mechanism of action of Epitiostanol, which is regarded as a steroidal antiestrogen, is different from that of tamoxifen in which an estrogen receptor (ER) system is included.

By methylating epitiostanol, it becomes orally bioavailable, just like every other oral steroid. Hence...Epistane.

Here are some blood results from people who were running epistane while getting bloodwork.

2006 Epi Bloodwork (20-45mg linear ramp):
SuperSoldier & Dr.D

_______________SS_____________ ________Dr.D
Date: ...1/07.....1/16.....1/26.................1/01.....2/09

AST ......26........32.........41. ..................24 ........52
ALT ......31........39.........51. ..................20 ........45
GGT ......09........05.........07. ..................15 ........21

ALB.......4.0........3.8...... ..3.9............... ..4.5.......4.8
TBIL......1.8........1.1...... ..1.3............... ..0.6.......0.5
DBIL......0.3........0.3...... ..0.2............... ..NA........NA

CHOL.....145.......149.......1 71.................1 99......208
LDH.......156.......198....... 208................. 129......147
HDL........32.........19...... ...9................ ...30........26

The following is a nice write-up from LakeMountD:

How Epistane Works

Battling Gyno

Estradiol is the strongest form of estrogen in the human body, effecting several organs. Estradiol enters cells freely and interacts with a cytoplasmic target cell receptor (ERα and ERβ). When the estrogen receptor has bound its ligand it can enter the nucleus of the target cell and regulate gene transcription which leads to formation of messenger RNA. The mRNA interacts with ribosomes to produce specific proteins that express the effect of estradiol upon the target cell. Epistane™ works by binding and deactivating the ERβ so that no estrodiol-elicited effects can be carried out in the cell. In the case of breast tissue ERβ is the primary target receptor responsible for growth and proliferation. Epistane™ binds to the ERβ and not only disables the receptor from binding to estradiol, it actually puts the cell in an estrogen deprived state, which decreases the cells viability and leads to a decrease in size and eventual cell death. Other SERMs also block the ERβ receptor and AI’s even block the formation of Estradiol from testosterone conversion. However, the effectiveness at the receptor and long term side effects vary. Epistane™ has been shown to have one of the strongest and longest effects at the binding site, with minimal side effects when compared to other anti-estrogens.

Increasing Lean Body Mass

Epistane™ also binds to androgen receptors located on skeletal muscle cells and muscle stem cells. This then leads to changes in muscle cell function and protein synthesis. In the case of muscle stem cells, they will actually change and fuse with your active adult skeletal muscles increasing the muscles potential for growth and repair. On the opposing side, the presence of androgens actually decreases the ability of stem cells to form new fat cells. So you now have increased stem cell conversion to muscle cells and decreased stem cell conversion to fat cells, giving you more positive effects out of your nutrition and training.

Here is the Product Description


Finally the PRO-Anabolic, anti-estrogen we have all been waiting for has arrived! Epistane™, exhibits a strong, long lasting anti-estrogen effect that is organ tissue specific. This means it works only where you want it to work. Broad range estrogen blockers and aromatase inhibitors can result in system shut down, aching joints, and decreased IGF-I expression. Epistane™ binds specifically to the 17β-estradiol receptor protein in the target tissues. Because of its long lasting and strong effects on specific tissue, Epistane™ can significantly reduce and reverse the effects of gynocomastia because not only does Epistane™ specifically block estrogen in breast tissue but it induces an estrogen-depleted condition which leads to apoptosis or the death of the breast tissue cells. Studies show that small doses of the parent compound, Epitiostanol, at just 10-20mg/week showed a complete disappearance of the mass and pain in 25% of the male patients in the clinical trail, while the other 75% of the patients showed at least a 50% reduction in the mass and complete loss of pain in just 4-8 weeks. That’s results in 100% of the male users with no side effects. While compounds such as Clomid and Nolvadex also block the 17β-estradiol receptor, they do not elicit the same increase in protein synthesis and strength gains that Epistane can offer.
Epistane™ is more than an anti-estrogen, though, as it also binds to androgen receptors in skeletal muscle. As a PRO-Anabolic compound Epistane™ promotes increases in strength and lean body mass with an anabolic/androgenic value (Q ratio) of 12. With most powerful androgens there is a high risk of the natural suppression of the gonads. Epistane™, unlike other PRO-Anabolic compounds that have recently been released, is relatively mild on the gonads and, due to the anti-estrogenic effects and the fact that Epistane™ keeps LH levels elevated, post cycle therapy becomes a breeze. All effects combined make Epistane™ a great compound to produce dry, lean gains in muscle mass with minimal side effects and suppression of the body’s natural androgen production, while lowering the effects of natural estrogen or combating estrogen from endogenous/exogenous sources. This makes it a powerful tool when combined with “wet” compounds in attempt to increase gains and decrease side effects. One can also not overlook the potential benefit of this compound taken alone, especially when recovering from periods of “wet” compounds. If you don’t want to worry about how your lipid and liver values are doing and whether or not you are going to get gynocomastia or not then get Epistane™, stop worrying, and experience what others are raving about!

Epistane and Women

Epistane has been used by women with great success. Side effects for women have been low. Some prefer it over Anavar since it does not cause bloating. Clitoral enlargement has not been an issue in these women. The most common dosing for women is 10mg EOD, or 10mg ED.

Last edited by Bodybuildingbrat : 07-21-2009 at 04:08 PM.
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Unread 07-21-2009, 07:10 PM
Weib Weib is offline
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I wonder whats the hurry?
You're preparing for a show soon or just impatient?
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Unread 07-21-2009, 09:54 PM
raja raja is offline
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havoc is a PH or a steroid? and if some 1 wants to turn to the dark side which is safe and better PH or AS ? because what i heard was that PH are actually more harmfull then AS and the results simply cant be compared to results you get from AS is this true ?
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Unread 07-21-2009, 10:00 PM
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hexx hexx is offline
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Originally Posted by raja View Post
havoc is a PH or a steroid? and if some 1 wants to turn to the dark side which is safe and better PH or AS ? because what i heard was that PH are actually more harmfull then AS and the results simply cant be compared to results you get from AS is this true ?
A prohormone is simply a precursor to a steroid. The people that claim prohormones are more risky usually base their opinion on the fact that PH's have never been studied in lab environment. With that said, it's a judgment call considering studies both supporting and condemning PH's have never been realized. You should note that like steroids, both the effects and side effects of prohormone greatly vary between chemical compounds (look up the androgenic vs anabolic index).

Realize that designer steroids are options for many people because they don't carry the moral and legal weight of actual drugs. With that said, most people will usually just recommend steroids because they are time tested and work well.
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Unread 07-21-2009, 10:33 PM
Element Element is offline
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How can they sell this product is it is a steriod?
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