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  #11  
Unread 12-31-2008, 12:36 AM
i_love_muscle i_love_muscle is offline
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First, I wouldn't suggest anybody do Tabata or HIIT more than twice a week.

Second, Lyle is right about these internet variations on the same theme: you can't get the same intensity. Think about what it feels like to sprint 100m and then jog 100m and then rinse and repeat until you puke (or do bike sprints or 500m sprints on an ergo). You can't mimic that overall intensity with KBs or whatever the flavor of the day happens to be.

Although I did think Tabata was a 2:1 work/rest ratio as opposed to a 1:2 or 1:3 work/rest ratio for HIIT. Maybe I've been sniffing the black felt pens too much though ...
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  #12  
Unread 12-31-2008, 09:41 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i_love_muscle View Post
First, I wouldn't suggest anybody do Tabata or HIIT more than twice a week.

Second, Lyle is right about these internet variations on the same theme: you can't get the same intensity. Think about what it feels like to sprint 100m and then jog 100m and then rinse and repeat until you puke (or do bike sprints or 500m sprints on an ergo). You can't mimic that overall intensity with KBs or whatever the flavor of the day happens to be.

Although I did think Tabata was a 2:1 work/rest ratio as opposed to a 1:2 or 1:3 work/rest ratio for HIIT. Maybe I've been sniffing the black felt pens too much though ...
Tabata was an extremely specific protocol developed for speed skaters and done n the bike. It entailed doing 8X 20 seconds hard/10 seconds rest where the hard bit was at 170% VO2 max and teh rest bit was much easier. When you got all 8 bits, you went up in wattage. In the study, this protocol was done 4X/week with an easier workout on Wed. NOTHING else is the Tabata protocol no matter how much internet goons want to claim it is. Just doing 20 seconds on/10 seonds off isn't Tabata.
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  #13  
Unread 12-31-2008, 10:55 AM
patriots2 patriots2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
Tabata was an extremely specific protocol developed for speed skaters and done n the bike. It entailed doing 8X 20 seconds hard/10 seconds rest where the hard bit was at 170% VO2 max and teh rest bit was much easier. When you got all 8 bits, you went up in wattage. In the study, this protocol was done 4X/week with an easier workout on Wed. NOTHING else is the Tabata protocol no matter how much internet goons want to claim it is. Just doing 20 seconds on/10 seonds off isn't Tabata.
Excellent point.

As I recall, the speed skaters (elite??) performance was enhanced from the protocol. Is it that they were elite that allowed them to recover? Wren't they falling/lying on the ground after ending a session?
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  #14  
Unread 12-31-2008, 01:42 PM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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Originally Posted by patriots2 View Post
Excellent point.

As I recall, the speed skaters (elite??) performance was enhanced from the protocol. Is it that they were elite that allowed them to recover? Wren't they falling/lying on the ground after ending a session?
A true tabata workout is an I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post. kicker acutely, but overall fatigue isn't that bad, it's only 4 freaking minutes. you could do it daily if you needed to.

Note also that, in the study, that's ALL They were doing eveyr week. Mon/Tue/Thu/Fri go in warmup, do the protocol. On Wed they did a truncated tabata followed by 20-30' of steady state. They were NOT trying to add it to heavy weight trianing or anything else.

how the original speed skating coach integrated it with his athletes, I do not know.
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  #15  
Unread 12-31-2008, 08:32 PM
i_love_muscle i_love_muscle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
Tabata was an extremely specific protocol developed for speed skaters and done n the bike. It entailed doing 8X 20 seconds hard/10 seconds rest where the hard bit was at 170% VO2 max and teh rest bit was much easier. When you got all 8 bits, you went up in wattage. In the study, this protocol was done 4X/week with an easier workout on Wed. NOTHING else is the Tabata protocol no matter how much internet goons want to claim it is. Just doing 20 seconds on/10 seonds off isn't Tabata.
Thanks for clarifying. I didn't think that 20 seconds on/10 seconds would do that much for anybody, particularly an elite athlete. What you have stated sounds far more like what an elite athlete would be doing. It sounds f'ing brutal.

There is so much crap on the internet I'm thinking of installing a flush mechanism on my web browser.
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  #16  
Unread 12-31-2008, 10:05 PM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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also note that the study was not actually done on elite athletes. they still adapted to it, for about 3 weeks. over the second 3 weeks, the gains were actually quite small.

but the workout, done properly is murderous.

Which is also part of why it shuld be done on a stationary bike and absolutely NOT done any other way. When you are on the bike and fatigue, you just stop pedalling. Do it running and you get hurt, break form on something dumb like KB swings or front squats and you get hurt.
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  #17  
Unread 12-31-2008, 11:19 PM
banderbe banderbe is offline
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I tried tabata once doing thrusters with 5 lb. dumb bells.. I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.ed up my knee. It's okay now but.. be careful.
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  #18  
Unread 12-31-2008, 11:24 PM
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AllGenetix AllGenetix is offline
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Originally Posted by banderbe View Post
I tried tabata once doing thrusters with 5 lb. dumb bells.. I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.ed up my knee. It's okay now but.. be careful.
no you did thruster intervals with a 20on/10off setup. tabata is done on a bike and a bike only
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  #19  
Unread 01-02-2009, 12:12 AM
Asherc Asherc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
also note that the study was not actually done on elite athletes. they still adapted to it, for about 3 weeks. over the second 3 weeks, the gains were actually quite small.

but the workout, done properly is murderous.

Which is also part of why it shuld be done on a stationary bike and absolutely NOT done any other way. When you are on the bike and fatigue, you just stop pedalling. Do it running and you get hurt, break form on something dumb like KB swings or front squats and you get hurt.
What about stuff like BW squats/pushups/etc? I've seen it used for that sort of stuff a lot.
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  #20  
Unread 01-02-2009, 01:09 AM
Tension Tension is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asherc View Post
What about stuff like BW squats/pushups/etc? I've seen it used for that sort of stuff a lot.
by definition that isn't tabata
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllGenetix View Post
no you did thruster intervals with a 20on/10off setup. tabata is done on a bike and a bike only
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