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  #1  
Unread 06-19-2013, 02:31 PM
jcastro20111 jcastro20111 is offline
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Default Hard Limit to Fat Loss?

Hi,

I have gone from being very overweight to within what is considered within the bounds of normal.

At my heaviest I was at 450lbs, and currently at 230lbs, having been dropped as low as 210. Having about 180lbs of lean mass means I have about 50lbs of fat. With the assumption that fat cells numbers do not go down and that at my heaviest I was 200lbs lean (though I think my sedintary lifestyle would have made it less).

1. 50lbs of fat now / 250lbs fat at my heaviest = 1/5
2. Same number fat cells means that my fat cells are 1/5 the size they once were
3. Fat cells have a mass range of .2mcg to 1mcg (the smallest being 1/5th of the biggest)

Given all that information, am I at a hard limit of fat loss outside of lipo?

I have heard that reversatrol, CLA, and Vitamin A have the potential to cause fat cells to die. Are those viable solutions that would lead to real results, or only experienced in a laboratory environment?

Thanks for your time!!!
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  #2  
Unread 06-20-2013, 01:41 AM
wazzup wazzup is offline
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A hard limit to fat loss with 50 lbs of fat ? I don't think so. Where did you get that idea ? The Minnesota starvation experiment didn't report anything like that, so I doubt it exists.
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  #3  
Unread 06-20-2013, 07:52 AM
jcastro20111 jcastro20111 is offline
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wazzup:

I got that idea from the taking the following assumptions (which I stated in the post above):

1. fat cells don't go away, just shrink when one gets leaner
2. fat cells range in size from .2mcg to 1mcg (which is a 5:1 ratio)
3. at my heaviest, I had 250lbs of fat. Now about 50.

From that, I run the numbers and I get find out that at my heaviest, I had 113B fat cells each with a mass of 1mcg. Now I still have 113B fat cells but now the mass of them is .2mcg. Can I keep the diet/workouts going and get my fat cells under 2mcg each?

Am I missing something?
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  #4  
Unread 06-20-2013, 09:28 AM
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troypulk troypulk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcastro20111 View Post
Hi,

I have gone from being very overweight to within what is considered within the bounds of normal.

At my heaviest I was at 450lbs, and currently at 230lbs, having been dropped as low as 210. Having about 180lbs of lean mass means I have about 50lbs of fat. With the assumption that fat cells numbers do not go down and that at my heaviest I was 200lbs lean (though I think my sedintary lifestyle would have made it less).

1. 50lbs of fat now / 250lbs fat at my heaviest = 1/5
2. Same number fat cells means that my fat cells are 1/5 the size they once were
3. Fat cells have a mass range of .2mcg to 1mcg (the smallest being 1/5th of the biggest)

Given all that information, am I at a hard limit of fat loss outside of lipo?

I have heard that reversatrol, CLA, and Vitamin A have the potential to cause fat cells to die. Are those viable solutions that would lead to real results, or only experienced in a laboratory environment?

Thanks for your time!!!
Even though you were "200lbs lean" what was your body fat %?

The key is BF%, your math is unrealistic because Pro bodybuilders on stage are around 3-5% BF, were you that lean at 200lbs?

Also, from what I understand fat cells can be created so you don't really know how many you have and you could of gotten fatter than 450lbs so that throws your theory out the window.
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  #5  
Unread 06-20-2013, 10:22 AM
jcastro20111 jcastro20111 is offline
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Troy,

I think I might have not clearly explained the numbers as well as I should have. I have never claimed to be anywhere near 3-5% bf. I am pretty certain that 450 is where I actually topped out.

Here are the numbers in a clearer format.
heaviest:
total 450lbs
lean ~200lbs
fat ~250lbs
%bf: 56%

lightest
total 210lbs
lean 170lbs
fat 40lbs
%bf 19%

now
total 230lbs
lean 180lbs
fat 50lbs
%bf 22%

The original question:

After dropping over 80% of fat mass, is there a point where you cannot drop any more fat because at that point the fat cells have shrunken as much as they can?
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  #6  
Unread 06-20-2013, 01:59 PM
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Violinist Violinist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcastro20111 View Post
I think I might have not clearly explained the numbers as well as I should have.
No, you did.

Interesting question. I have no idea how you'd come up with the number of 'empty' fat cells coating your body or how much they each weigh on average. At 450 pounds, you would probably have been carrying a lot more than you started out with as well (if I remember the main site articles correctly).

Assuming they are there and do have mass, then yes the limit to what bodyfat % you can get down to will be that much higher than someone else who isn't carrying around the sins of the past so to speak.

Doubtful that could be quantified though.
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  #7  
Unread 06-20-2013, 02:14 PM
jcastro20111 jcastro20111 is offline
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Violinist,

I quantified it by assuming that at 450lbs (250lbs fat) that my fat cells were at full capacity (1mcg). Then calculated how many times 1mcg fit into 250lbs and that came out to be about 113B.

The reason I ask is that I am trying to determine what my next steps should be. Would like to avoid any sort of surgery if possible.

Thanks
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  #8  
Unread 06-20-2013, 04:16 PM
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Violinist Violinist is offline
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They don't disappear which means they still have some weight, and that is what I said would be hard to quantify.

If you want them gone, your next step is lipo. If you want them as empty as possible, diet until you are near death then stop. Those are the options.
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  #9  
Unread 06-20-2013, 04:27 PM
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troypulk troypulk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcastro20111 View Post
The original question:

After dropping over 80% of fat mass, is there a point where you cannot drop any more fat because at that point the fat cells have shrunken as much as they can?
IMHO, Yes, 3%BF
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  #10  
Unread 06-20-2013, 04:28 PM
jcastro20111 jcastro20111 is offline
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So I'm guessing the best next step is to lipo after dieting to get them as densely packed as possible.
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