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  #1  
Unread 04-27-2008, 11:44 AM
steviekm3 steviekm3 is offline
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Default muscle mass gain curve after weights .. ?

After you lift weights and the body starts putting on mass has anybody measured when the body puts on the extra mass.. Eg is it something like

50% first 48hours
25% next 24 hours
remaining mass after 72 hours

If someone had a curve of muscle gain vs time since workout that would be awesome.
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  #2  
Unread 04-27-2008, 01:28 PM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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the time course of protein synthesis has been measured

you are worrying about irrelevant things
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  #3  
Unread 04-28-2008, 03:22 AM
steviekm3 steviekm3 is offline
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Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
the time course of protein synthesis has been measured

you are worrying about irrelevant things
I was thinking doing a full body muscle building workout once a week. ( couple of sets per body part to failure ). Then in the next 48 hours after working out make sure I eat very high amount of protein ( 1.5 grams * lean muscle mass in pounds ) along with well balanced diet. And then for the remainder of the week really scale back my calories to try and lose fat. I was hoping this could keep the muscle, or build muscle and cut fat as well.
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Unread 04-28-2008, 07:03 AM
CZa CZa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
the time course of protein synthesis has been measured
Where can I find this data?
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  #5  
Unread 04-28-2008, 10:16 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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medline/Pubmed

here's one of about 3-4 papers that have looked at it

***
Can J Appl Physiol. 1995 Dec;20(4):480-6.Links
The time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis following heavy resistance exercise.

MacDougall JD, Gibala MJ, Tarnopolsky MA, MacDonald JR, Interisano SA, Yarasheski KE.
Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario.
It has been shown that muscle protein synthetic rate (MPS) is elevated in humans by 50% at 4 hrs following a bout of heavy resistance training, and by 109% at 24 hrs following training. This study further examined the time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis by examining its rate at 36 hrs following a training session. Six healthy young men performed 12 sets of 6- to 12-RM elbow flexion exercises with one arm while the opposite arm served as a control. MPS was calculated from the in vivo rate of incorporation of L-[1,2-13C2] leucine into biceps brachii of both arms using the primed constant infusion technique over 11 hrs. At an average time of 36 hrs postexercise, MPS in the exercised arm had returned to within 14% of the control arm value, the difference being nonsignificant. It is concluded that following a bout of heavy resistance training, MPS increases rapidly, is more than double at 24 hrs, and thereafter declines rapidly so that at 36 hrs it has almost returned to baseline.
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Unread 04-28-2008, 09:17 PM
CZa CZa is offline
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Thanks.

I found it surprising to see muscle protein synthesis increase more after 24 hours than in the time immediately following a workout.
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Unread 05-01-2008, 02:53 AM
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That, after 36 h, protein synthesis has returned to baseline levels does not mean that we have recovered from training.

The question would be: what is better, to do less volume, so that to the 36-48 h the recovery is total and to return to train, or to do high volume and wait more time?
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Unread 05-01-2008, 06:43 AM
steviekm3 steviekm3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar View Post
That, after 36 h, protein synthesis has returned to baseline levels does not mean that we have recovered from training.

The question would be: what is better, to do less volume, so that to the 36-48 h the recovery is total and to return to train, or to do high volume and wait more time?
TNT book said that there was a study done at university of Alabama where they took 2 groups of beginners and 1 group did a full body workout 3 times a week and the other did full body workout once a week. The volume of sets per week was the same for each of the two groups. Just the once a week group did more sets in their weekly workout and the 3 times a week group did 1/3 the sets for each of the 3 times.

Anyways after some time ( I forget how long they waited ). The 3 times a week group gained 9 lbs of muscle while the once a week group gained 5lbs.

I don't know what other variables were controlled ( diet, how many reps, timing of rep, going to failure etc ).
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Unread 05-01-2008, 08:35 AM
Sugar Sugar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steviekm3 View Post
TNT book said that there was a study done at university of Alabama where they took 2 groups of beginners and 1 group did a full body workout 3 times a week and the other did full body workout once a week. The volume of sets per week was the same for each of the two groups. Just the once a week group did more sets in their weekly workout and the 3 times a week group did 1/3 the sets for each of the 3 times.

Anyways after some time ( I forget how long they waited ). The 3 times a week group gained 9 lbs of muscle while the once a week group gained 5lbs.

I don't know what other variables were controlled ( diet, how many reps, timing of rep, going to failure etc ).
But the question could be: after some time, those who trained with high frequency wouldn't obtain better gains reducing it?, since its body will have adapted to this frequency.

It would be necessary to make a study on a long period of time to know with certainty if to train 2-3 x week it's better for the natural trainee, instead of changing frequency each X time, like we do with other variables of the training.

In addition, to train 1 x week also has its advantages, like greater protein degradation, more glycogen depletion, develop more work capacity, etc.
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  #10  
Unread 05-01-2008, 09:03 AM
steviekm3 steviekm3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar View Post
But the question could be: after some time, those who trained with high frequency wouldn't obtain better gains reducing it?, since its body will have adapted to this frequency.

It would be necessary to make a study on a long period of time to know with certainty if to train 2-3 x week it's better for the natural trainee, instead of changing frequency each X time, like we do with other variables of the training.

In addition, to train 1 x week also has its advantages, like greater protein degradation, more glycogen depletion, develop more work capacity, etc.
This seems to be the general thing you hear - you can train the same muscle 3 times a week if you are a beginner but it seems the more advanced then the less often you train the muscle. The pros apparently train each muscle once every 5-6 days is what I hear. But they are really juiced up in addition to being genetically advantaged so that adds a whole other factor.

You are correct that a longer study would be needed. It might very well be that once a certain time period is reached it is better to train once a week.

I have a hunch that eventually the laws of diminishing returns kick in and it becomes very hard to improve at a certain point. Probably training 3 times a week will take the average person very close to their genetic potential as well as once a week but the time to reach it may be different. That is my guess anyways. Also if you are training 3 times a week I would say you also have to be careful about your calories. Training 3 times a week versus training 1 time a week on a calorie diet where you are trying to keep a low %bf may not give any advantages...

There are so many factors involved it is hard to make sense of this stuff without a bunch more studies .. though it seems nobody is really doing much of these studies - probably because there is no money for it... I don't know.
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