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  #1  
Unread 02-18-2014, 09:00 AM
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troypulk troypulk is offline
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Default Mark Sisson and Calories

Lyle,

Would you mind giving your professional opinion on Mark's opinion of the Calories In, Calories Out debate?

Podcast

Thanks
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  #2  
Unread 02-18-2014, 09:21 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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I'm not sitting through an entire podcast to say what I'm sure will be "He's wrong" give me the cliffs notes of whatever his idiotic argument is.
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  #3  
Unread 02-18-2014, 10:25 AM
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Okay,

I guess the following would get to the point of what he is trying to say.


Brad Kearns: [00:11:04] So okay you haven't really refuted the calories in/calories/out. That's a literal truth. But you are saying that appetite supersedes everything...appetite and hormones which regulate appetite supersede these valiant efforts to burn a lot of calories and ease in portion control to maintain body weight.

Mark Sisson: Yeah, appetite has a lot to do with it. When we talk about hormones that are body metabolism like thyroid which controls the rate at which we generate heat in the body and basel metabolic rate and a number of other factors there.
That can be affected by diet and we look at whether or not we are increasing calories burned just from what we call thermic effective food. So there are a lot of different factors in burning calories. Some of which are not dependent at all on moving more or burning off calories.
As I say, you can simply raise metabolic rate through hormonal manipulation or thermal effective food. But let's look at what happens when we burn calories through exercise, for instance. If we become good at burning fat, if we have done this work of reconfiguring ourselves, (I call it reprogramming your genes,) but doing so derive most of your energy from stored body fat and doing so in a workout.
If you work out to that effect and you start burning off calories, one of the things that happens is you begin to dip into your body fat storage and you don't dramatically reduce your glycogen stores to the extent that you finish the workout and you feel so hungry when you get home and replenish things.

Conversely, if you are a sugar burner and you go to the gym and you are on that literal and figurative treadmill every single day and you are not good at burning fat and you are depending on a fresh supply of carbohydrate and you are putting through all of these carbohydrate calories, some of which go into glycogen and some of which get stored as fat. Let's say every day you go to the gym and you burn off 450 calories a day on the treadmill.
Well the brain recognizes what you have done and as soon as you get home, the brain says, if you are going to try this tomorrow, we have to eat a lot of calories to replace what we have burned off today. So you have people who have gone to the gym day in and day out and they have done that chronic cardio on the treadmill, and they have not been good at burning fat because they don't understand the concept.
They are just thinking in terms purely of calories in/calories out and because they track the calories they've burned so much on the treadmill, when they get home, they don't tend to track the calories that they take in that the brain is trying to get them to replenish for tomorrow's workout.
Over time, these people either tend not to lose weight or they tend to gain weight. That's really the sugar burner mentality paradigm that we are trying to get rid of. It is difficult because if you are a sugar burner and if you have not been good at being able to access stored body fat, mitigating insulin, and controlling your appetite and your hunger, then it is a constant battle with your brain.
It is a constant battle with your appetite. It is a constant battle with your hunger. It's a challenge that is unsustainable to try and lose weight simply by exercising and cutting calories.
So that's the bad news if you are going down that Weight Watchers biggest loser route which would have you just burn more calories and eat fewer calories.
What I am suggesting within the Primal Blueprint is yes, you to have to burn off more calories than you store to lose body fat but I can show you how to do that partly through manipulating the macronutrient intake, (the fat, protein, carbohydrate intake) so that you drop your dependence on glucose, so that your brain becomes good at accessing ketones, so that your muscles at accessing stored body fat whether or not your are working out but on every minute of every day, and over time you tend to use that stored body fat and you ad verbatim choose to eat fewer calories than say you would have in your old carbohydrate burning paradigm.

Brad Kearns: That's an important point because the former, someone stuck in the carb burning paradigm they really have no choice unless they have the greatest will power and a $50,00 check waiting for them there going to get short term results, but they are always going to succumb to the survival instinct, if you will, of replenishing those calories because they need to burn them because they are not efficient at burning ketones.

Mark Sisson: [00:15:51] Exactly. Now let's talk a little bit about ideal body composition because a lot of people would take what I just said and they would extrapolate and say, "If I do what you say, Mark, and become a fat burning beast, and I become fat adapted, ketone adapted, and I decrease my dependence on glucose, and I regulate my appetite over time so that I am not overeating, and I am actually reducing the number of calories I take in and I am manipulating my hormones, either through my diet or through particular exercise selections to the extent that I retain muscle mass but burning off stored body fat, hey, Mark, won't I get to the point where I am 8 percent body fat if I'm a guy and 12 or 13 percent if I am a woman. And the answer to that I have is maybe or maybe not.
The maybe not is more likely because there is a point at which you body recognizes the 30 or 40 of prior years of history, the potential metabolic damage that you have done to it, the programming that it has been used to over the years, and your body might say okay we are going to lose weight here for a while.
Maybe we'll lose 50 pounds or maybe we'll plateau. And that happens to a lot of people particularly on the Primal Blueprint, particularly on the paleo diet, or any of these ancestral eating strategies. You get to a point where the weight stops coming off.
There is a point of frustration for some people who, rightfully so, have observed such a transition to get to where they are now that then stop losing weight and in many cases, start gaining some back.
The first thing I'll tell people is that an ideal body composition is a concept that doesn't depend on society's picture of what your ideal is. It doesn't depend on the cover of Men's Health magazine, or Shape magazine, or Victoria's Secret catalog. Your ideal body composition is when you body says I am very healthy at this weight. I don't get sick at this weight. I have all the energy I need to get through the day at this weight.
I maintain this weight without a lot of effort, without a lot of calorie counting. I probably live a little longer at this weight even though it's slightly higher than I want. That is truly what ideal body composition is. Now if we say that's nots good enough for me. I want to look good naked. What's it going to take to get to the next level?
That's where we are going to have to suggest there's going to be some sacrifices that are going to have to be made. You are going to have to hit the gym harder. You are going to have to sprint faster on the sprint days. You are going to have to literally start counting calories and cutting back, because you are going to force your body to burn off more of your stored body fat. So in that regard, this level might require a much more aggressive approach that may result in getting sick more often. It may result in you not having all the energy you want or your not sleeping as well as you ought to be sleeping, or you may not even have you live as long as you would have at your true ideal body composition.
The point is we can get you there. As a coach I can get to where you are going to drop more body fat and maybe get closer to your own particular goals that you set for yourself but that doesn't mean that that is your ideal body composition. So we have to sort of separate health from vanity, or health from performance and fitness here, and suggest that health is first and foremost and is always why we embrace in the Primal Blueprint.
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  #4  
Unread 02-18-2014, 10:29 AM
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Nonsensical, full of basic mistakes.
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  #5  
Unread 02-18-2014, 11:32 AM
Sam Hell Jr. Sam Hell Jr. is offline
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Sometimes, after I do a half hour on the treadmill, my brain will hold a knife to my mother's throat until I eat a potato.
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  #6  
Unread 02-20-2014, 02:39 PM
jimjack jimjack is offline
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lol, his answer to the last question is an excuse for why people tend to plateau on his diet, and his excuse is that what you plateau at is the healthiest weight for your body...LOL. Or maybe it is because people are eating more calories than they should, even if they are mostly from fat and protein.
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  #7  
Unread 02-26-2014, 02:37 PM
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jaysond94566 jaysond94566 is offline
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if i may, i am living proof of this. i was one of marks followers. i used his printable PDF as a shopping list and went at it full force. i lost weight but i was not getting the bodycomp i wanted. people were talking about leangains on his forum so i checked it out, then i found martin talking about lyle and here i am. i didn't get the results i wanted until i dialed it down the way lyle explains.

and now i have a better comp and i eat like a normal human!
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  #8  
Unread 09-02-2014, 01:56 AM
laf laf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysond94566 View Post
if i may, i am living proof of this. i was one of marks followers. i used his printable PDF as a shopping list and went at it full force. i lost weight but i was not getting the bodycomp i wanted. people were talking about leangains on his forum so i checked it out, then i found martin talking about lyle and here i am. i didn't get the results i wanted until i dialed it down the way lyle explains.

and now i have a better comp and i eat like a normal human!
Hi Jayson,

I was also a follower of Mark's preaches and I write this down for any future readers of this topic (although it's couple months old now):
- Mark's approach is best suited and with good results for any beginner presumably with extra fat to shed and especially for the classic American guy
- once you passed this phase successfully, indeed you need to look around and find better resources/plans/sites like this one.

But take into account that many people are happy with the 1st phase and they stop there, they won't hold that 6 pack still they feel wonderful and normal people compared to what they previously were.
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