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  #1  
Unread 06-02-2010, 10:23 AM
Longboard Longboard is offline
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Default Glycogen Depletion

I own both the Flexible and UD2.0 books, and have been following a diet strategy that is a mix between these two approaches. Have lost nearly 20 lbs. of fat with insignificant muscle loss.

Now that my BF is getting into the low teens, I'm doing a strict refeed every ~7 days. I've been following the guidelines set in the Flexible book, but I'm wondering if I would be better off using the UD2.0 carb guidelines since I'm probably fully glycogen depleted by then. I understand there are other differences between the diets, and that glycogen depletion isn't the thing going on.

Days 1-6 look like this: carb intake is 25-75 grams/day. Training might be a short, intense metcon, or a 3-5 mile run, or heavy, low volume strength work (squats/pulls/presses).

Based on what I've been able to find in the articles, I think I should be fully glycogen depleted by the end of that 6 day period. Does that sound fair?

And if so, would it be wise to increase my carbs during the refeed to the amount set in the UD2.0? I usually try and do a heavy "power" workout the day after my refeed.

I suppose I should just experiment to see if I can handle the increase in carbs, but I only get to run this experiment once per week and the consequences have the potential to offset a few days of dieting, which scare the hell out of me.
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  #2  
Unread 06-03-2010, 12:47 AM
stecson stecson is offline
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no

are you looking for assurance to eat more?

what is your reasoning to increase carbs in the first place?
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  #3  
Unread 06-03-2010, 01:49 PM
Longboard Longboard is offline
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Stecson,

Are you saying no I should not be fully glycogen depleted, or no I should not eat more carbs?

Am I looking for assurance to eat more? I suppose I am, but it's within the context of maximizing the benefits of my weekly refeed. If it sounds like I'm just looking for an excuse to binge on carbs, this isn't the case.

If you're familiar with the UD2.0, it should be fairly clear why I'm interested in increasing the carbs. If 5-6 straight days of very low carb eating and moderate exercise is getting me fully glycogen depleted, and I follow my refeed with a heavy "power" workout, I suspect that a larger refeed than is recommended in the Flexible book would actually benefit me.

Perhaps I should post this question in the UD2.0 forum, but I assumed there would be crossover.
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  #4  
Unread 06-03-2010, 05:25 PM
stecson stecson is offline
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I'm sure if Lyle thought it would "maximize" the diet he would have wrote it that way.

and no, you probably aren't fully depleted. If that was the case, there would be no need for "depletion workouts" you are essentially dieting 1 more day then ud2 calls for.

so the way you word it is that you need the ud2 carb load to have a "power workout"


moral of the story

just do ud2 if you want to basically try and do your diet similarly.

or just stick to what he wrote in flexible dieting.
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  #5  
Unread 06-03-2010, 08:29 PM
Longboard Longboard is offline
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Stecson,

I appreciate your reply, but I'm trying to dig a little deeper here. I'm not asking a stupid question because I'm trying to circumvent the way these plans are written.

I suspect there are circumstances where a UD2.0 style carbload would be appropriate, or even beneficial, even if I'm not following the UD2.0 training regimen.

Anyone else have any input?
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  #6  
Unread 06-04-2010, 05:02 AM
former former is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboard View Post
Stecson,

I appreciate your reply, but I'm trying to dig a little deeper here. I'm not asking a stupid question because I'm trying to circumvent the way these plans are written.

I suspect there are circumstances where a UD2.0 style carbload would be appropriate, or even beneficial, even if I'm not following the UD2.0 training regimen.

Anyone else have any input?
you will be depleted but not fully depleted like at the ud2, thats why u should eat 8 - 12 / g / carbs / LBM and not 16 like @ UD2.
u should carb-up also for Leptin,Gherlin and not only for Glycogen.
furturemore, your glycogen will be mostly depleted, just not fully like @ UD2.
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  #7  
Unread 06-04-2010, 08:52 AM
Espi Espi is offline
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The GtFD (or FlexDiet) isn't cast in stone like the UD2.0 is, but it's pretty obvious that when you're getting leaner, you'll probably tolerate higher amounts of carb for your refeeds.
At the same time you won't be as depleted since you're not doing the (boring) depletion workouts.

If I were you, I'd see what happens when you'd either
a raise carbs on your carb ups
b put your refeeds closer together
c raise carbs on your diet days

I'd go for b but most people prefer a weekly schedule so unless you'd want to do 2 smaller refeeds/wk, which is quite OK if you'd be very lean already, you can try a.
Experiments are beautiful, that's why FlexDiet is so appealing..
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  #8  
Unread 06-04-2010, 05:03 PM
Longboard Longboard is offline
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Thanks for the comments. Thinking I might try increasing the frequency of refeeds to every 4th or 5th day. Looks like it's time to experiment.
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  #9  
Unread 08-22-2014, 10:19 PM
samadams92 samadams92 is offline
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Old Thread I know

just been reading some old threads about the differences in CKD or UD2

Also is a two day carb load more or less beneficial then a 1 day carb load refeed based on the GFD? better in the sense of hormones and glycogen super compensation.

Based on GFD recommendations for a cat 1 dieter for (2) 24hr refeeds per week (4-6g/ lean body mass) 640g-960g) 160 lean body mass (estimate)

Say ex. like this (protein 1-1.5g per lb every day)
Day 1 100g Carbs 80g Fat
Day 2 100g Carbs 80g Fat
Day 3 Carb Load 640-960g_40g Fat
Day 4 100g Carbs 80g Fat
Day 5 100g Carbs 80g Fat
Day 6 Carb Load 640-960g_40G Fat
Day 7 100g-200g (Based on goals) 80g Fat

Fat is depended on goals or surplus or deficit , muscle growth or max fat loss

Idk im going back and fourth on either doing UD2 again of creating my own CKD just dont know. To many options lol.

Only question I guess I have is for carb loads for a cat 1 dieter as far as efficiency and hormone up-regulation and for glycogen supercompenstion.

Is a one day carb load twice a week at 8-12g kg/lean mass [b]TWICE A WEEK [/B on]separate Days (ex Wednesday and a Saturday)

Or

Two Day Carb Load back to back days at 8-12g kg/lean mass both days. (Ex Friday and Saturday)

Which would be a better option

on the off carb load days the carbs would be around 1g per LBM on training days maybe or under 100g to stay ketogentic.

Did anyone follow that, been messing with this for months and just seeing if anyone else have gone over this themselves
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  #10  
Unread 08-23-2014, 03:37 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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Sam. I'm feeling this strange sensation I've never really had before.

I'm actually at a total loss for words.
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