BodyRecomposition Support Forums  

Go Back   BodyRecomposition Support Forums > General information > General training questions
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #2341  
Unread 09-01-2017, 04:19 AM
LioRiX LioRiX is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 39
Default

Not that I doubt but just out of curiousity, why 6-8 rep range on Squat and Bench Press? I thought 5 was the way to go
Reply With Quote
  #2342  
Unread 09-01-2017, 06:23 AM
AlphaBettor AlphaBettor is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 537
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LioRiX View Post
Not that I doubt but just out of curiousity, why 6-8 rep range on Squat and Bench Press? I thought 5 was the way to go
The way to go for what? Think of rep range as a continuum. Sets of 5 are not that much different than sets of 6-8. The latter gives you a bit more volume, and generally a little less joint stress but again the difference is incremental.

Remember that it's a bulking (hypertrophy) program and designed as such. That said, if you wanted to use sets of 5 sometimes to get some heavier work/move things slightly toward the strength side of things, that is obviously fine.
Reply With Quote
  #2343  
Unread 09-01-2017, 07:04 AM
LioRiX LioRiX is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaBettor View Post
The way to go for what? Think of rep range as a continuum. Sets of 5 are not that much different than sets of 6-8. The latter gives you a bit more volume, and generally a little less joint stress but again the difference is incremental.

Remember that it's a bulking (hypertrophy) program and designed as such. That said, if you wanted to use sets of 5 sometimes to get some heavier work/move things slightly toward the strength side of things, that is obviously fine.
Thank you for answering.
Actually my main goal is, too, hypotherpy.
But from all the reads lately I've inferred that hypotherpy (other than eating right) happens with progressive overload, and that the best way to overload is by using the 5 rep range as it's easier to get stronger that way. I understand that it doesn't matter this much, but to get this, if my goal is hypotherpy shouldn't I aim to be getting stronger? I think it's harder to increase weights with 6-8 reps

Last edited by LioRiX : 09-01-2017 at 07:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2344  
Unread 09-01-2017, 07:48 AM
w1cked w1cked is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,501
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LioRiX View Post
Thank you for answering.
Actually my main goal is, too, hypotherpy.
But from all the reads lately I've inferred that hypotherpy (other than eating right) happens with progressive overload, and that the best way to overload is by using the 5 rep range as it's easier to get stronger that way. I understand that it doesn't matter this much, but to get this, if my goal is hypotherpy shouldn't I aim to be getting stronger? I think it's harder to increase weights with 6-8 reps
You can do both. Couple sets of 5 couple sets of 6 to 8 ciuple 8 to 12 etc
Reply With Quote
  #2345  
Unread 09-01-2017, 11:53 AM
BEATMEOUTTAME's Avatar
BEATMEOUTTAME BEATMEOUTTAME is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 350
Default

The basic idea is this..


There are 3 lifters... all are at the same weights now. Let's say they squat 135x5, bench 135x5, and Deadlift 135x5 just for ease of argument....

For the next three months they select a weight on the bar so each workout One lifter lifts 3 sets of 5, one does 3 sets of 8, and one does 3 sets of 12...

After 90 days the guy doing sets of 5 is going to be lifting a massive amount of weight comparatively... let's just say he's doing 265x5 squat, 205x5 bench, and 315x5 Deadlift.

The 8 rep guy will have made moderate strength gains...

And the 12 rep guy will have made minimal strength gains...

The sets of 5 guy will be much bigger than the other 2 guys even though he wasn't lifting for "hypertrophy".

Then he can switch over to a "hypertrophy" range of 8 reps and down the line 10-12 reps. Again he will make incremental size gains much faster than the other guys can since he will be lifting significantly more weight for 8-12 reps than the guys who never bothered to make their initial strength gains can.

You always want to focus on becoming strong first, well before you worry about training for hypertrophy. Otherwise your gains will be slow as crap
__________________
My Wild Ride to A great body in my 30s.

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=23215

Thank you Lyle. This website is a game changer once you understand the mechanisms behind fat loss/muscle gain.

Spun my wheels for years prior to finding this site.

Last edited by BEATMEOUTTAME : 09-01-2017 at 11:56 AM. Reason: A
Reply With Quote
  #2346  
Unread 09-01-2017, 11:58 AM
w1cked w1cked is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,501
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEATMEOUTTAME View Post
The basic idea is this..


There are 3 lifters... all are at the same weights now. Let's say they squat 135x5, bench 135x5, and Deadlift 135x5 just for ease of argument....

For the next three months they select a weight on the bar so each workout One lifter lifts 3 sets of 5, one does 3 sets of 8, and one does 3 sets of 12...

After 90 days the guy doing sets of 5 is going to be lifting a massive amount of weight comparatively... let's just say he's doing 265x5 squat, 205x5 bench, and 315x5 Deadlift.

The 8 rep guy will have made moderate strength gains...

And the 12 rep guy will have made minimal strength gains...

The sets of 5 guy will be much bigger than the other 2 guys even though he wasn't lifting for "hypertrophy".

Then he can switch over to a "hypertrophy" range of 8 reps and down the line 10-12 reps. Again he will make incremental size gains much faster than the other guys can since he will be lifting significantly more weight for 8-12 reps than the guys who never bothered to make their initial strength gains can.

You always want to focus on becoming strong first, well before you worry about training for hypertrophy. Otherwise your gains will be slow as crap
Its better to do them concurrently or you lose adaptations. Eg you'll losse some strength generates during 5 rep phases during 8 to 12. So...better approach is to prioritize 5 reps for couple months with couple sets of 8 to 12 then prioritize 8 to 12 for couple months with couple sets of 5s...etc

5x5 w28-12
...
...
...
25 and 4x8-12

Etc
Reply With Quote
  #2347  
Unread 09-01-2017, 12:57 PM
LioRiX LioRiX is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEATMEOUTTAME View Post
The basic idea is this..


There are 3 lifters... all are at the same weights now. Let's say they squat 135x5, bench 135x5, and Deadlift 135x5 just for ease of argument....

For the next three months they select a weight on the bar so each workout One lifter lifts 3 sets of 5, one does 3 sets of 8, and one does 3 sets of 12...

After 90 days the guy doing sets of 5 is going to be lifting a massive amount of weight comparatively... let's just say he's doing 265x5 squat, 205x5 bench, and 315x5 Deadlift.

The 8 rep guy will have made moderate strength gains...

And the 12 rep guy will have made minimal strength gains...

The sets of 5 guy will be much bigger than the other 2 guys even though he wasn't lifting for "hypertrophy".

Then he can switch over to a "hypertrophy" range of 8 reps and down the line 10-12 reps. Again he will make incremental size gains much faster than the other guys can since he will be lifting significantly more weight for 8-12 reps than the guys who never bothered to make their initial strength gains can.

You always want to focus on becoming strong first, well before you worry about training for hypertrophy. Otherwise your gains will be slow as crap
Thanks! That was exactly what I thought after my reading. However, why did Lyle suggest doing 6-8 rep ranges for such compound movements like Squat and Bench? Shouldn't 5 rep sets be better?
Reply With Quote
  #2348  
Unread 09-01-2017, 02:14 PM
AlphaBettor AlphaBettor is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 537
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEATMEOUTTAME View Post
The basic idea is this..


There are 3 lifters... all are at the same weights now. Let's say they squat 135x5, bench 135x5, and Deadlift 135x5 just for ease of argument....

For the next three months they select a weight on the bar so each workout One lifter lifts 3 sets of 5, one does 3 sets of 8, and one does 3 sets of 12...

After 90 days the guy doing sets of 5 is going to be lifting a massive amount of weight comparatively... let's just say he's doing 265x5 squat, 205x5 bench, and 315x5 Deadlift.

The 8 rep guy will have made moderate strength gains...

And the 12 rep guy will have made minimal strength gains...

The sets of 5 guy will be much bigger than the other 2 guys even though he wasn't lifting for "hypertrophy".

Then he can switch over to a "hypertrophy" range of 8 reps and down the line 10-12 reps. Again he will make incremental size gains much faster than the other guys can since he will be lifting significantly more weight for 8-12 reps than the guys who never bothered to make their initial strength gains can.

You always want to focus on becoming strong first, well before you worry about training for hypertrophy. Otherwise your gains will be slow as crap
3x5 is usually too little volume for optimal progress and sometimes any progress at all. Even 3x8 is kind of on the low side of things although that depends on a lot (how advanced someone is, what kind of assistance work they're doing, etc. etc. etc. Even the lift matters a lot e.g. hard 3x8 deadlifts might break somebody.)

The "LPs" can get away with 3x5 because they usually involve beginner lifters, and usually the squat is usually done 3x/week and first in the workout. You can get far on 9 hard sets a week especially when prioritized first every workout. Pay attention to progress reports though-- bench press and press often stall fairly quickly and part of the reason is 3x5 every ~5th day just doesn't get it done for very long, even with the overlap.

I don't really know where you got where you wrote. Take identical twins who can bench press 3x8x135 or 3x5x150, which are comparable numbers for hard sets. Each twin progresses from there... I think the difference is marginal either way but surely favors the 3x8 twin in size and likely eventually strength as well, although it may take a period of intensifying to equalize/surpass the other.
Reply With Quote
  #2349  
Unread 09-01-2017, 03:04 PM
LioRiX LioRiX is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaBettor View Post
3x5 is usually too little volume for optimal progress and sometimes any progress at all. Even 3x8 is kind of on the low side of things although that depends on a lot (how advanced someone is, what kind of assistance work they're doing, etc. etc. etc. Even the lift matters a lot e.g. hard 3x8 deadlifts might break somebody.)

The "LPs" can get away with 3x5 because they usually involve beginner lifters, and usually the squat is usually done 3x/week and first in the workout. You can get far on 9 hard sets a week especially when prioritized first every workout. Pay attention to progress reports though-- bench press and press often stall fairly quickly and part of the reason is 3x5 every ~5th day just doesn't get it done for very long, even with the overlap.

I don't really know where you got where you wrote. Take identical twins who can bench press 3x8x135 or 3x5x150, which are comparable numbers for hard sets. Each twin progresses from there... I think the difference is marginal either way but surely favors the 3x8 twin in size and likely eventually strength as well, although it may take a period of intensifying to equalize/surpass the other.
But would 8 rep sets be actually easier to make progress with than 5 rep sets?
I understand progressive overload plays the most part on someone's hypotherpy, but I thought 5 rep sets were easier to progress with.
Reply With Quote
  #2350  
Unread 09-01-2017, 03:50 PM
w1cked w1cked is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,501
Default

Jesus christ
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.