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  #21  
Unread 01-20-2018, 06:27 PM
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alcahuetej alcahuetej is offline
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Originally Posted by w1cked View Post
To add to that the longee maintaining an "unnaturally" lean state the more food focused you become. Thinking about whats for next 2 meals, passing up calorie heavy social meals and a bunch of other disordered eatinf type traita manifest at least ime. Whar do you think?
Oh God yes. I adored every meal because I was so hungry all the time.

I also passed up many social events (not every single one) because I could really only afford one cheat meal per week (and even this was a moderate cheat meal) along with some beers on the weekend. So if a social event landed on a day other than a Saturday (my designated "cheat day"), I'd be more inclined to skip it. Because if I went, I'd just sit there watching everyone else enjoy a normal meal while I had some grilled chicken and broccoli. I would rather just sit at home and have my regularly scheduled meals that would at least somewhat fill me up.

Unfortunately the lesson I learned putting back on about 30 lbs., is that being anal about my diet is closer to what I need to be, than what I was when I became more relaxed and put on all that weight. I was definitely far too obsessive in the past, and I'm more relaxed now, but you honestly can't relax too much. I learned very quickly why so many people are overweight.

You have to be in control of your diet the majority of the time, otherwise you just keep gaining weight, even if you work out.
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  #22  
Unread 01-21-2018, 02:34 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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Originally Posted by kyoun1e View Post
If the OP can do a solid rep at 315 - 355 I'd have to think he has a decent amount of muscle no?

Maybe the OP can post a pic. Curious.
Like I said, my mistake. I was thinking of that other guy
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  #23  
Unread 01-21-2018, 06:03 AM
Determinism Determinism is offline
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Originally Posted by alcahuetej View Post
You have to be in control of your diet the majority of the time, otherwise you just keep gaining weight, even if you work out.
Amen. If one becomes too relax, the diet will make you fat, it's relentless. Almost everyone carries too much fat, mainly because they don't "count" calories, don't care about diet, or are uneducated.
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  #24  
Unread 01-21-2018, 08:24 AM
patriots2 patriots2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Determinism View Post
Amen. If one becomes too relax, the diet will make you fat, it's relentless. Almost everyone carries too much fat, mainly because they don't "count" calories, don't care about diet, or are uneducated.
It’s funny how cardio calories burned never seem to equate to extra calories eaten, even if one is conservative with burn estimate. Maybe it’s water retention with more cardio - who knows, but never seems to work.

That’s what makes 24+ hour fasting so effective. It’s hard to under estimate zero calories consumed.
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  #25  
Unread 01-21-2018, 08:47 AM
w1cked w1cked is offline
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Originally Posted by patriots2 View Post
Itís funny how cardio calories burned never seem to equate to extra calories eaten, even if one is conservative with burn estimate. Maybe itís water retention with more cardio - who knows, but never seems to work.

Thatís what makes 24+ hour fasting so effective. Itís hard to under estimate zero calories consumed.
If its accurately tracked they might but it takes few days for things to catch up ime
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  #26  
Unread 01-21-2018, 03:31 PM
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nzgs nzgs is offline
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Counting calories is imo for the inexperienced and the competitive, for people in between it's just a form of eating disorder. A lot of people have a total disconnect between how much energy they think is in a meal with its true value, and as such they have to recalibrate their brains when they first get started in this lifestyle. It's useful for those people. There are also many people who eat too much processed food which is all over the place regarding calories and macros and necessitates OCD diet tracking. A banana is (more or less) a banana. A chicken breast is a chicken breast. An egg is an egg. If you eat a wholefood-based diet you will quickly find that you don't need to read labels all the time.

I think once you've been lifting for a few years and know what a 300 calorie meal looks like vs a 500 cal meal, and you know the difference between an empty stomach and severe hunger, you no longer need to obsessively track everything you eat but can eyeball your diet and gauge your daily intake by your hunger. The daily fluctuations in your calorie expenditure are not accurately measurable outside of a controlled lab environment and if you think you can measure your calorie balance to within 50 calories then you're delusional and creating pointless anxiety for yourself.

I believe a large reason why so many people stall when they reach "lean" bodyfat levels is precisely because they engage in neurotic behaviour, they let their fitness consume their lives, they err on the side of overtraining, and they exist in a constant state of trashed hormones. The only way those people lose fat is by sacrificing lean body mass, which means the scale goes down but they still look soft, which increases the neurosis.

Last edited by nzgs : 01-21-2018 at 03:33 PM.
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  #27  
Unread 01-21-2018, 03:54 PM
Determinism Determinism is offline
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Obesity doesn't reflect that belief.
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  #28  
Unread 01-21-2018, 04:41 PM
Twitchy Twitchy is offline
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Originally Posted by nzgs View Post
Counting calories is imo for the inexperienced and the competitive, for people in between it's just a form of eating disorder. A lot of people have a total disconnect between how much energy they think is in a meal with its true value, and as such they have to recalibrate their brains when they first get started in this lifestyle. It's useful for those people. There are also many people who eat too much processed food which is all over the place regarding calories and macros and necessitates OCD diet tracking. A banana is (more or less) a banana. A chicken breast is a chicken breast. An egg is an egg. If you eat a wholefood-based diet you will quickly find that you don't need to read labels all the time.

I think once you've been lifting for a few years and know what a 300 calorie meal looks like vs a 500 cal meal, and you know the difference between an empty stomach and severe hunger, you no longer need to obsessively track everything you eat but can eyeball your diet and gauge your daily intake by your hunger. The daily fluctuations in your calorie expenditure are not accurately measurable outside of a controlled lab environment and if you think you can measure your calorie balance to within 50 calories then you're delusional and creating pointless anxiety for yourself.

I believe a large reason why so many people stall when they reach "lean" bodyfat levels is precisely because they engage in neurotic behaviour, they let their fitness consume their lives, they err on the side of overtraining, and they exist in a constant state of trashed hormones. The only way those people lose fat is by sacrificing lean body mass, which means the scale goes down but they still look soft, which increases the neurosis.
If you don't count calories you are eating based on your hunger and I can tell from my experience you will fail miserably. I've learned my lesson in my last thread. I'm sure everybody on these forums can give a testimony on them overestimating calories and gaining weight.

I'm a strong believer in what is not measured, cannot be managed. If you want consistent results you need to know AT LEAST a approximation of calories you burn and are eating.

Last edited by Twitchy : 01-21-2018 at 04:44 PM.
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  #29  
Unread 01-21-2018, 05:36 PM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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Originally Posted by Twitchy View Post
If you don't count calories you are eating based on your hunger and I can tell from my experience you will fail miserably. I've learned my lesson in my last thread. I'm sure everybody on these forums can give a testimony on them overestimating calories and gaining weight.

I'm a strong believer in what is not measured, cannot be managed. If you want consistent results you need to know AT LEAST a approximation of calories you burn and are eating.
A load of rubbish. You can "tell from your experience". That applies to YOU, and not automatically everybody else.

Nzgs was totally correct. Once you reach a certain level of experience, many CAN successfully just go based on feel. Some can manage like that. I know I can. And that's applicable to ME, and everybody else who has experienced the same.

Meticulous calorie counting is necessary if somebody NEEDS it. That's it. I don't need it, therefore it's an unnecessary tool for me.

Myself, I go with my instincts, and I monitor on the scale and in the mirror. Works fine.
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  #30  
Unread 01-21-2018, 08:08 PM
Twitchy Twitchy is offline
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Originally Posted by BigPecsPeter View Post
A load of rubbish. You can "tell from your experience". That applies to YOU, and not automatically everybody else.

Nzgs was totally correct. Once you reach a certain level of experience, many CAN successfully just go based on feel. Some can manage like that. I know I can. And that's applicable to ME, and everybody else who has experienced the same.

Meticulous calorie counting is necessary if somebody NEEDS it. That's it. I don't need it, therefore it's an unnecessary tool for me.

Myself, I go with my instincts, and I monitor on the scale and in the mirror. Works fine.
It doesnít have to be meticulous. Read my post again. I agree with only part of what he says. You only need an approximation of what your eating, I agree that after a while of eating you know how many calories you are taking in and whether or not your in a surplus or deficit.

I donít agree that means you should stop completely managing or considering your intake.
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