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  #471  
Unread 09-05-2013, 12:39 PM
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Kossunen Kossunen is offline
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Not being philosofical. Indirectly asking that has anyone had the same problem? Does anyone else live in a country that has banned/ negative drug policy for DNP?
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  #472  
Unread 09-05-2013, 01:28 PM
niloluiz niloluiz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primalkid View Post
I had really bad night sweats on night 3 and was really thirsty, but ever since then I don't have the sweats and I'm not really thirsty either so I figure my body has reached an equilibrium. Also temp is steady at 99.3 for past two days plus this morning.

I should note that I am going to stop this weekend. I just wanted to do a week to see the effects. I need to finish bulking and then will diet down around Thanksgiving time (DNP + turkey = challenge accepted)
No prob then. It's really important to keep in mind the accumulation aspect because all research done on it so far doesn't agree on any specific half-life value.

The widely claimed 36h is just a ballpark number based on empirical data. Most of the discernible effects does indeed lasts about that time but even then individual variance still plays a role (which may help explain why no precise value was ever found and probably won't be). And when assessing moderate to high dosages is always good to err on the side of caution.

As for dosage x metabolism increase in cases of high-tolerance the graphic posted here: http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showt...56&page=30#297 gives an idea of how to assess that. In that example 500mg produced less effect than 400mg because the 500mg dosage was only used with people that had a higher tolerance. You can extrapolate from there to estimate the effect it will have for you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by knoxxelig View Post
from conciliator
Quote:
Originally Posted by w1cked View Post
he's wrong too then, and I pointed out why 2 posts ago.

"89% comes from comparing their molecular masses."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15058315
The 75% figure was found and confirmed in research (the ones made when DNP was used for weight-loss) so the researches would have to be grossly mistaken which is not the case, so the 75% is correct.

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Originally Posted by Brad805 View Post
Popular thread with lots of good posts. Makes me think, but there is two things I still cannot quite get past. Oh well, interesting to read.
You can post your doubts/concerns here so they may be addressed.
Like any drug or substance DNP have it's risks, it's just not the blown-out-of-proportion drama you usually see over the internet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kossunen View Post
Found out that in my country DNP is considered as a "drug substance" and I'm not sure should I risk it and order some online as "plant-fertilizer" If the customs get me I guess i would get a fine or something. I would be eager to try it slowly upping the dose from 200mg to see what it does. Should I risk it? I live in Finland btw.
The china sources mentioned here will send the stuff using funny descriptions. Mine arrived with a certification for transport of goods declaring the stuff as "Polyaluminium Chloride"
This may or not pose a problem for you... better check the rules in your country to certify that the worst thing that can happen is seizure/loss of the package. If that's the case then you may give a try.
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  #473  
Unread 09-05-2013, 01:31 PM
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Kossunen Kossunen is offline
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Thanks niloluiz, that's the answer I was looking for
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  #474  
Unread 09-05-2013, 01:34 PM
niloluiz niloluiz is offline
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Observation for anyone reading this:

Every Once in a while I receive PM asking about sources.... so to spare the trouble I will tell right away to read this entire thread as the information with direct link is posted here. It's for the raw-powder which is the best option anyway. Any pre-capped option will be a rip-off and you run the risk of a bad batch either far underdosed or even using a spoiled filler (many use starch/flour as filler and those can expire/spoil for example). So as a matter of policy I won't recommend any pre-capped option so please don't bother sending me message asking for it.
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  #475  
Unread 09-05-2013, 02:09 PM
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jaysond94566 jaysond94566 is offline
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we need to invent - auto reply for PM's

example; Thank you for contacting me. If you didn't pass your written driving permit test the first time which is usually about 110% common sense, then don't ask me any questions.
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  #476  
Unread 09-05-2013, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niloluiz View Post
The china sources mentioned here will send the stuff using funny descriptions.
Oopsie scroodles may occur:
http://thinksteroids.com/news/steroi...ves-terrorism/

(if not reading, Chinese supplier labeled normal steroids instead as a material used in certain explosives favored by terrorists, so instead of quietly slipping by - the guy got busted extra fast - makes me wonder if the China-side entity did it on purpose after a bad dealing)
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  #477  
Unread 09-05-2013, 04:20 PM
Primalkid Primalkid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w1cked View Post
he's wrong too then, and I pointed out why 2 posts ago.

"89% comes from comparing their molecular masses."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15058315
Can you get the full-text for me w1ked? aleaf45@hotmail.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by niloluiz View Post
The china sources mentioned here will send the stuff using funny descriptions. Mine arrived with a certification for transport of goods declaring the stuff as "Polyaluminium Chloride"
This may or not pose a problem for you... better check the rules in your country to certify that the worst thing that can happen is seizure/loss of the package. If that's the case then you may give a try.
Mine arrived with an illegible word beginning in "o" lol

I should add, anyone else lose their appetite with DNP? Been rolling on 750mg for 6 days now and I just don't get hungry. Even went to a buffet yesterday and enjoyed it but filled up much sooner than usual.

Last edited by Primalkid : 09-05-2013 at 04:28 PM.
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  #478  
Unread 09-05-2013, 06:41 PM
w1cked w1cked is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primalkid View Post
Can you get the full-text for me w1ked? aleaf45@hotmail.com



Mine arrived with an illegible word beginning in "o" lol

I should add, anyone else lose their appetite with DNP? Been rolling on 750mg for 6 days now and I just don't get hungry. Even went to a buffet yesterday and enjoyed it but filled up much sooner than usual.
i'll ask a college friend (if anyone still is) to source me the full paper. I used to have it but my database subscription expired in feb.
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  #479  
Unread 09-06-2013, 01:32 AM
bigboned bigboned is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w1cked View Post
i'll ask a college friend (if anyone still is) to source me the full paper. I used to have it but my database subscription expired in feb.
I was reading about DNP
if DNP lowers ROS, how come DNP causes cataracts?
I thought catarracts were caused by heavy long term oxidative damage?
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  #480  
Unread 09-06-2013, 02:41 AM
knoxxelig knoxxelig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primalkid View Post
I should add, anyone else lose their appetite with DNP? Been rolling on 750mg for 6 days now and I just don't get hungry. Even went to a buffet yesterday and enjoyed it but filled up much sooner than usual.

Wow, I get HUGE cravings on larger dosages (350+), I litterally don't get full at all and can (and have to) easily eat 10k+ calories of anything.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboned View Post
I was reading about DNP
if DNP lowers ROS, how come DNP causes cataracts?
I thought catarracts were caused by heavy long term oxidative damage?
Quote:
So why do we take antioxidants with DNP? Because a rare second order metabolite of DNP (a semiquinone) can cause cataracts. Most people (99%-99.9%) are able to neutralize this pro-oxidant without any problems. The other few probably have some deficiency or genetic mutation that makes them susceptible. Antioxidants can be thought of as insurance against this for those unlucky few who are susceptible. They're hardly mandatory though. Thousands of people have taken DNP without antioxidants and have done just fine. My typical recommendation is simple: a normal daily dose of the commons - vit C, vit E, and if you have them ALA and coQ10. DO NOT SUPERDOSE.

But there's lot a more that might confer some protection... A substance called selenite is used in animal studies to cause oxidative stress and initiate cataract formation. If one asssumes that DNP promotes cataracts through a similar oxidative mechanism, studies assessing preventative measures can be helpful. Many of these are common in DNP users' guides (though for the wrong reasons), but others are new (taurine, green tea, lycopene, etc)


Cataracts: The primary reason DNP was removed from the market was because of the formation of cataracts. There were 170 some odd case reports from the 1930's. Based on my numbers, that's an incidence rate of 0.04%. Horner estimated the incidence rate to be between 0.1% and 1%. While the cause was unknown in the 1930's, we're now empowered with more information, including possible preventative measures. This is very important, as cataracts were the main reason DNP was discontinued. If they can be prevented, then one could make a case that DNP should be allowed back on the market.

I think there's good evidence supporting antioxidants. Early research in the 1930's and 40's made a bunch of different hypotheses about the etiology. Some thought the cataracts were caused by oxygen deficiency and lactic acid buildup in anaerobic metabolism (which is predominant in the lens). Others thought it was because of interference with glycolysis. Some thought it was secondary to liver damage (though DNP was found not to be hepatotoxic).

The best research came in the 1950's by Ogino and Yasukura. They found that guinea pigs fed a vitamin C deficient diet developed cataracts while those that were supplemented with vitamin C did not. As they explained, "In these experiments, it is clear that there is a close relationship between the production of cataract and vitamin-C deficiency." They then went on, through a series of fascinating steps, to isolate the cataractogenic metabolite of DNP. They identified it as 2-amino-p-quinonimine. They found that the hydroxyl- and nitro-radicals of DNP in the p-position of the benzene ring are essential to the production of dinitrophenol cataract. There are various other cataractogenic agents that are also quinoid substances.

Ogino and Yasukura said "This suggests that a genetic predisposition plays an important role in susceptibility to this cataract. This notion is strengthened by the fact that, in spite of extensive experiments of long duration by many authors, it has been found impossible to produce dinitrophenol cataract experimentally in various other species, namely, in rats, rabbits, guinea pigs, and dogs, although Bettman observed dinitrophenol cataract in a special strain of mice."

Rigdon did research on DNP induced cataracts in chickens and turkeys in 1959. He said "of course, necrosis in any tissue may occur by different mechanisms. However, the similarity of the effect of DNP and a deficiency of vitamin E on the lens may be significant."

Personally, I think those who developed cataracts either 1) had a genetic predisposition as Ogino and Yasukura hypothesized, 2) were vitamin C/E deficient, or 3) both. As I pointed out in another thread, vitamin C supplementation didn't make it big until Linus Pauling in the 70's. I think it's very possible that these people in the 1930's were eating unbalanced diets and had antioxidant deficiencies. IMO, vitamin C, vitamin E, and other antioxidants would be expected to reduce the incidence rate or even prevent cataracts altogether. The incidence is already low enough to begin with that I don't think any supplements are "mandatory" while taking DNP, but for those who are susceptible, for whatever reason, a normal dose of vitamin C and E might offer some insurance.
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