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  #1  
Unread 09-09-2015, 07:18 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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Default Meal Frequency and Patterning Part 1


Main site book excerpt
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  #2  
Unread 09-09-2015, 09:17 AM
katkinsk katkinsk is offline
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Ran across this article today: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23688334

Obviously it was done in women with PCOS but it's one of the first articles I've found that really supports meal/caloric timing. Just thought I'd share.
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  #3  
Unread 09-09-2015, 09:33 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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There is other data like this but it tends to be somewhat uncontrolled and self-reported and there is always the problem of changes in actual food intake. Fat loss improves all of this in any degree but thanks for the paper.
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Unread 09-09-2015, 11:06 AM
katkinsk katkinsk is offline
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Well I think what's interesting about this paper is these are lean PCOS patients and by the end of the study they maintained their body composition like the controls. So at least in this study it separates out weight loss from the hormonal equation. Not sure it has any relevance outside of PCOS though.
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  #5  
Unread 09-09-2015, 11:29 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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I would have liked to see a less extreme meal spread.

Over 50% of total calories at breakfast is huge.

Certainly interesting.
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  #6  
Unread 09-09-2015, 12:13 PM
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alcahuetej alcahuetej is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
I would have liked to see a less extreme meal spread.

Over 50% of total calories at breakfast is huge.

Certainly interesting.
This part of the discussion was interesting. And below that are the links to the studies referenced in this quotation. What's your opinion on this?

"The improvement in insulin resistance indices in the BF group is consistent with previous reports that showed that the morning period is most critical in terms of maintaining optimum metabolism. Previous epidemiological studies have shown that high-calorie breakfast is related to lower daily energy intake, reduced BMI, improved nutrient intake [37,38] and lower serum cholesterol concentrations [39]. The reduction in insulin resistance indices in the BF group is also congruent with a recent study that showed that increasing carbohydrate intake at breakfast could be protective against long-term development of the metabolic syndrome [40]. In addition, a meal tolerance test in the evening showed that the levels of both glucose and insulin were higher in the D group compared with the BF group (results not shown)."

37) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...&dopt=Abstract

38) http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...e2=tf_ipsecsha

39) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...&dopt=Abstract

40) http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v3...o2012103a.html

Edit: Looking at the studies linked to the quote, as you said, there's a fair amount of self-reporting, and two of the studies were only performed with adolescents. And none of them suggest 50% of the total calories at breakfast would be beneficial.

Last edited by alcahuetej : 09-09-2015 at 12:37 PM.
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  #7  
Unread 09-09-2015, 02:11 PM
katkinsk katkinsk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alcahuetej View Post
Edit: Looking at the studies linked to the quote, as you said, there's a fair amount of self-reporting, and two of the studies were only performed with adolescents. And none of them suggest 50% of the total calories at breakfast would be beneficial.
Looks like from this:

"Recently, we have found that high-caloric intake at breakfast led to greater weight loss, improved glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity indices in obese women with metabolic syndrome than high-calorie dinner [26]."

26. Jakubowicz D., Barnea M., Wainstein J., Froy O.(2013) High caloric intake at breakfast vs. dinner differentially influences weight loss of overweight and obese women. Obesity, doi: 10.1002/oby.20460.

Link for convenience: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...oby.20460/full

From that studies' abstract: "Overweight and obese women (BMI 32.4 ± 1.8 kg/m2) with metabolic syndrome were randomized into two isocaloric (∼1400 kcal) weight loss groups, a breakfast (BF) (700 kcal breakfast, 500 kcal lunch, 200 kcal dinner) or a dinner (D) group (200 kcal breakfast, 500 kcal lunch, 700 kcal dinner) for 12 weeks."

Last edited by katkinsk : 09-09-2015 at 02:17 PM. Reason: removing unneeded detail
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  #8  
Unread 09-09-2015, 05:59 PM
mr._mulligan mr._mulligan is offline
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Just listened to PN's podcast on breakfast. It was just someone reading this article out loud. But, good article. Basically, breakfast doesn't matter.

http://www.precisionnutrition.com/sk...st-and-obesity

I like this quote:

"After looking at 88 observational studies on obesity and breakfast, the authors of our study made some interesting discoveries.
Turns out that if a study showed a positive correlation between skipping breakfast and obesity (i.e. skipping breakfast was associated with increased fat), there was a good chance this information would show up in the study’s abstract and its conclusion.

Of course, it’s normal to report your results in the abstract — which, for those of you who have forgotten science class, is the little précis at the beginning. It summarizes the research. And it’s this abstract that busy researchers rely on when compiling meta-analyses.
Interestingly, if a study found a negative correlation (i.e. skipping breakfast was not associated with gaining weight), the result went unreported in the abstract or conclusion
.
This is a big reason why it’s a bad idea to skim the abstract instead of reading the whole study!"
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  #9  
Unread 09-15-2015, 09:41 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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Part 2
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  #10  
Unread 03-28-2016, 08:17 PM
Ambitius Ambitius is offline
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Since there is no "Meal Frequency and Patterning Part 2"-Thread I could post in, I hope you don't mind me posting my questions regarding Part1&2 here.
I'd really like to hear your thoughts on some points that came up
after reading your 2nd part.

At first, one suggestions (since you're still editing)
1.) The problem many get with EOD is the amplified hunger; sure some macro-manipulations and timing of the meals the day before could help avoid some hunger issues.I've often encountered it, too. Some specifics would surely help lots of people, who are interested in this approach.
On the otherside, never ever have I had so much strength on a cut, as with this approach, it's almost like bulking The downside, especially for women is that the deficit really has to be "created" on the rest days due to an all to often low maintenance expenditure.

Questions:

2.) In the second diagram, at the ICR, it shows :

50% deficit
50% deficit
50% deficit
50% deficit
10% surplus
Maintenance = 0%
10% deficit

Now my quesiton is, why this kind of manipulation on the last 3 days ?
+10% +0% -10% = 0, but so does 3*0% -so, why not just 3 days at maintenance ?

Which leads to my (pre)final question :

3.) Why do calories have to be raised slightly above maintenance and not at maintenance ?Let's say that we hold exact knowledge of the maintenance. One could argue as to be on the safe side, since the body is no bodymedia/fitbit to be sure to cross the maintenance-barrier, but besides that ?Is there any benefit to go beyond maintenance, and if there is, (when)would 150% be better than 110%...



4.) Will there be mention of bromocriptin in regard to women in addition to the diet(s), that you'll describe ?I know for post-menopausal women, it's the holy grail but what about the the rest/younger ones.


Although I do love IF personally, as in it makes my life so much easier (for me), it's great that you've mentioned that it's not all roses with IF, it reinforces my picture of you as a holistic author.
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