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  #1  
Unread 09-14-2017, 02:50 AM
LioRiX LioRiX is offline
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Default Clarification on optimal fat loss

Hi all, first of all I want to apologize if anything isn't clear. Unfortunately my English level is still not where I want it to be.

So I have some questions regarding fat loss and nutrient timing I didn't really get while reading some articles in the site:

-I understand that the "optimal" suggestion for maximizing MPS throughout the day is having meals containing 30-40g of protein each, with 4-5 hours gap in between them. Is that the same for when there's a workout in this gap? E.g. is eating at 1pm, working out at 4pm and eating again at 6pm considered "optimal", or should I consider any supplement such as BCAAs/EAAs?

-While I'm not so sure about this one - I always thought fat loss was only about having a caloric deficit, but from reading Lyle's "Stubborn Fat" (with my limited English), I quite didn't understand - does cardio actually oxidies fat, no matter where the calorie equation stands at?

-Last one, I'm about 12% BF, eating at maintenance for now doing GBR. I really want to make things right, I've read some article that says that if you spike Insulin in the morning, you basically stop the fat oxidation. Should I consider skipping breakfast and maybe even do Fasted Cardio? Or there will be negatives since I don't eat any protein - hence not stimulating MPS.


Thanks in advance
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  #2  
Unread 09-14-2017, 09:58 PM
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BEATMEOUTTAME BEATMEOUTTAME is offline
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1) calorie timing and spreading out protein across the course of the day isn't a huge deal. The main thing is to make sure you get proper nutrition post workout. Fast digesting protein, complex carbs, some sugars, and some fats. BCAA's aren't really necessary except for more extreme cases... say you fast every morning and your job is extremely active they might make sense. You don't HAVE to eat before you workout, in fact some people prefer fasting. For my personal preference I eat prior to lifting. I feel drained quickly otherwise.

2) I don't quite understand your question... but when you expend energy you will be burning fat stores in some capacity. If you eat more calories than you burn in the day you may have net fat storage though as the new fats replace the old fats (and then some).

3) I would not do any high intensity fasted cardio at 12% bodyfat. In fact, if I were at 12% bodyfat and focusing on the GBR I would not be doing any cardio at all beyond a little low intensity walking (good for cardiovascular health, anxiety, recovery from strength training, etc). Cardio and weight training compete for the same resources.

But yes when you spike insulin it will cause your body to burn a higher percentage of carbohydrates/sugars for energy so fat loss rate will be affected. I wouldn't fast and then go run... but skipping breakfast is fine and has some overall calorie partitioning benefits.
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My Wild Ride to A great body in my 30s.

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=23215

Thank you Lyle. This website is a game changer once you understand the mechanisms behind fat loss/muscle gain.

Spun my wheels for years prior to finding this site.
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  #3  
Unread 09-15-2017, 05:32 AM
LioRiX LioRiX is offline
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Thanks
-So basically it's "okay" to have 5-6 hour gap between pre-WO meal to post-WO meal?

-About the fasted state - from reading Lyle's articles I understand that lean individuals may be better doing morning fasted cardio in order to help fat mobilization - however, if I do not eat in the morning I get the drawback of not stimulating MPS every day first. Did I get this right?
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  #4  
Unread 09-15-2017, 09:23 AM
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BEATMEOUTTAME BEATMEOUTTAME is offline
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Lyle is a little touchy about discussing fasting on this board so I'll leave it at this.

The studies that show you MUST eat every ________ hours or your muscles will fall off or not grow have been widely discredited by many groups and in particular proponents of "intermittent fasting". There is a good thread stickied on this board that discusses this in depth along with other online resources.

Lyle's point is that the proponents of "intermittent fasting" kinda tend to go off the deep end when championing it as the be all, end all approach to dieting/training for everyone.

Some people (particularly those with poor insulin sensitivity like myself) have used intermittent fasting to adhere/comply with dieting goals more successfully. So the best approach is the one that works for you.

That being said, post workout nutrition is of utmost importance and there is no "camp" that I know of that would argue otherwise.

Now to answer your question to the best of my ability...

I ALWAYS perform my cardio fasted because it does enhance fat mobilization which is a necessary requirement for burning fat stores for energy. HOWEVER, when you are below 15% your fat stores are stubborn so you need to pay careful attention to the intensity, frequency, AND duration of your cardio. Running long distances, walking for extreme duration, or Sprinting too often is all inappropriate.

Lyles Stubborn fat advice is typically reserved for those looking to get ultra lean. Namely, stage performing bodybuilders.

These protocols are not really appoprIate for someone who is performing the GBR and trying to ADD lean muscle mass. If you are doing the GBR, do the GBR. Some light walking fasted for ~20-30 minutes 2-3x per week is appropriate if you choose to do cardio for health and calorie partitioning benefits.
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My Wild Ride to A great body in my 30s.

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=23215

Thank you Lyle. This website is a game changer once you understand the mechanisms behind fat loss/muscle gain.

Spun my wheels for years prior to finding this site.

Last edited by BEATMEOUTTAME : 09-15-2017 at 09:25 AM. Reason: A
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  #5  
Unread 09-15-2017, 10:26 AM
LioRiX LioRiX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEATMEOUTTAME View Post
Lyle is a little touchy about discussing fasting on this board so I'll leave it at this.

The studies that show you MUST eat every ________ hours or your muscles will fall off or not grow have been widely discredited by many groups and in particular proponents of "intermittent fasting". There is a good thread stickied on this board that discusses this in depth along with other online resources.

Lyle's point is that the proponents of "intermittent fasting" kinda tend to go off the deep end when championing it as the be all, end all approach to dieting/training for everyone.

Some people (particularly those with poor insulin sensitivity like myself) have used intermittent fasting to adhere/comply with dieting goals more successfully. So the best approach is the one that works for you.

That being said, post workout nutrition is of utmost importance and there is no "camp" that I know of that would argue otherwise.

Now to answer your question to the best of my ability...

I ALWAYS perform my cardio fasted because it does enhance fat mobilization which is a necessary requirement for burning fat stores for energy. HOWEVER, when you are below 15% your fat stores are stubborn so you need to pay careful attention to the intensity, frequency, AND duration of your cardio. Running long distances, walking for extreme duration, or Sprinting too often is all inappropriate.

Lyles Stubborn fat advice is typically reserved for those looking to get ultra lean. Namely, stage performing bodybuilders.

These protocols are not really appoprIate for someone who is performing the GBR and trying to ADD lean muscle mass. If you are doing the GBR, do the GBR. Some light walking fasted for ~20-30 minutes 2-3x per week is appropriate if you choose to do cardio for health and calorie partitioning benefits.
Thank you.
I know studies have showed that what really matters are end-of-the-day macros/calories, both questions weren't really referred to that but to stimulate MPS as optimal as I can.

Anyhow, regarding my 2nd question - 2-3 times brief walking sounds great. The point is, if I do this fasted in the morning as advised here for lean individuals (https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fa...eting-qa.html/) - I give up on stimulating MPS in the morning.

Uhh, I'm sorry for my limited English, if it makes it more clear; I want the optimal muscle growth, while taking advantage of these hormones and fat mobilization discussed in this article - Should I just skip breakfast because I'm considered "lean", or this will be a drawback for muscle gaining? (Morning MPS)
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  #6  
Unread 09-15-2017, 01:16 PM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is online now
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Unfortunately the person answering your questions, as usual, has made things far too complicated and half the time is wrong.

1. Don't worry about meal timings. If you're the sort to easily gain muscle, you'll accomplish that anyway without chasing any minor supposed advantages. If you're not the sort to gain easily, those minor details won't make too much of any difference. Just forget it. The basics are this: adequate protein; surplus to gain; deficit to cut. That's ALL you need to know.

2. BCAAs are a waste of time and money

3. The Stubborn Fat Solution is cardio protocols ON TOP OF a deficit.

4. Forget about all the insulin spiking/fasted cardio stuff. Just see 1 above.

That's ALL you need to know to succeed, or not succeed (if your genetics aren't up to it). That's really it.
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  #7  
Unread 09-15-2017, 02:39 PM
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BEATMEOUTTAME BEATMEOUTTAME is offline
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Lol, Id love for you to point out what is wrong in my post. Good luck!


I wouldn't worry about this stimulating MPS you speak of. Peter's post is mostly correct. I'd only take issue with #4, obviously.


And peter is a little too quick to play the "genetics" card in my opinion. Sure it affects your top end strength and the speed in which you progress. But high strength and LBM is attainable for the mass majority of the general population. The mass majority of people who do not progress are not following a proper strength training program, dieting correctly, or getting enough Sleep/Recovery also)
__________________
My Wild Ride to A great body in my 30s.

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=23215

Thank you Lyle. This website is a game changer once you understand the mechanisms behind fat loss/muscle gain.

Spun my wheels for years prior to finding this site.

Last edited by BEATMEOUTTAME : 09-15-2017 at 02:46 PM. Reason: a
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  #8  
Unread 09-16-2017, 01:51 AM
LioRiX LioRiX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEATMEOUTTAME View Post
Sure it affects your top end strength and the speed in which you progress. But high strength and LBM is attainable for the mass majority of the general population.
Totally agree with this one

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPecsPeter View Post
Unfortunately the person answering your questions, as usual, has made things far too complicated and half the time is wrong.

1. Don't worry about meal timings. If you're the sort to easily gain muscle, you'll accomplish that anyway without chasing any minor supposed advantages. If you're not the sort to gain easily, those minor details won't make too much of any difference. Just forget it. The basics are this: adequate protein; surplus to gain; deficit to cut. That's ALL you need to know.

2. BCAAs are a waste of time and money

3. The Stubborn Fat Solution is cardio protocols ON TOP OF a deficit.

4. Forget about all the insulin spiking/fasted cardio stuff. Just see 1 above.

That's ALL you need to know to succeed, or not succeed (if your genetics aren't up to it). That's really it.
Thank you very much. And to clarify one last thing; for "optimal" (as far as it will help) MPS I should have a protein containing meal right upon waking up?
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  #9  
Unread 09-16-2017, 03:16 AM
Determinism Determinism is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LioRiX View Post
Thank you very much. And to clarify one last thing; for "optimal" (as far as it will help) MPS I should have a protein containing meal right upon waking up?
No, that's bro science. Timing of meals doesn't matter much. Hit your macro's, hit your micro's and you're good to go. You can make a small argument for nutrition pre and post workout, but the typical bro has that covered anyway.
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  #10  
Unread 09-16-2017, 04:00 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LioRiX View Post
Totally agree with this one



Thank you very much. And to clarify one last thing; for "optimal" (as far as it will help) MPS I should have a protein containing meal right upon waking up?
You plainly didn't read my post. What part of "that's all you need to know" wasn't clear?
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