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Unread 07-22-2014, 05:37 PM
Body Body is offline
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 37

Thanks a lot for another great article!

I do weight-training Monday Wednesday Friday,
and I now want to incorporate 20min of 70% heart rate
cardio on Tuesday, Thursday (and perhaps Saturday).

This is a post for people who have fun thinking about details,
I know this amount of detail is unnecessary but I find it
interesting and am interested in your thoughts.

(Nutrition timing: -> ok, I realize this has been answered in
many different ways by different people (Lyle with yohimbe
there is a fasted advantage(?), Leangains best do it fasted
but take 10g BCAA 15min beforehand, Aragon fed cardio is
better for protein synthesis and same for fatburning over 24hours)
so please just go down to ‘Type of Cardio’ if you are sick of it

Options I consider/see:
1. Doing it fasted. Good for burning fat (?).

2. Doing it at some point in time of the day but at least 3hours
after the first meal. Good for nutrient delivering into the muscles?

3. Doing it kinda fasted but taking 5g bcaa 15minutes before
training (or 10g whey 30min before, or 3b: bcaa and 10g
dextrose right before training)

I guess this would be same effect as number 2 and no need for it
if I can just choose to train later in the day.
Just by feeling I like Nr 3 best cause I have time in the morning
and do intermittent fasting but afraid of muscle loss.

And I take 200mg coffein and 40mg yohimbe bark powder
after waking up (started with 10mg and slowly tried more
and more but still no side effects noticeably but a boner;
is yohimbe = yohimbe bark powder?) so perhaps this helps
fatburn. (I guess to optimize I should take the caffeine and
yohimbe 5min before training)

Type of Cardio:
Definitely something that involves whole body, not just legs.

Options I consider / see:
1. Rowing or Elliptical trainer: Two classic cardio types that involve upper body

2. Doing movements that are from my specific sport and try to get 70% heartrate in these movements. Idea is to use cardio time to get better at this skill. Question is if 70% heartrate-training has any effect on getting better at the sport.

3. Did anyone ever think of this one (or rightfully not?): If bloodflow improves recovery and stuff – why not just mimic my weight-training-exercises but making it continuous aerobic movements without weight? Like doing the exercises I right now do 3sets x 5 reps but do them continuously, without weights. Trying getting some pump/bloodflow and going for 70% heart rate.

4. Pilates? (I don’t even know this); Kettlebell (also no idea about this), swimming, boxing -> I guess I could try a lot of stuff. (Or not – my gym has no kettlebells, no swimming, no boxing and no pilates )

5. Circuit in the fitnesscenter

6. Something where you just mimic what the guy does in the video. P90X? Here are many free ones:

Well. I kind of tried Nr 3. Of course it doesn’t work good . Well, it needs more planning. It needs to be kind of continuous movement to keep the heart rate up and be just the right weight so I can still do 2 minutes continuous movement (this is about 40 reps) but also enough so it gets my heart rate up.

Lyle writes on about different types of intensities.
The lowest form of intensity in this article is:

“Really extensive bodybuilding method:
pures sarcoplasm, with more focus on capillarization and mitochondries than on glycogen-depletion
1-2 sets
1-2 minuten constant movement, tempo 2/0/2”

I am thinking about doing this as ‘active regeneration’ at 70% heart rate - or is this nonsense.

It would be 10 exercises each 2 minutes.

I tried this today:

Each exercise continuous movement for 2 minutes,
tempo 2 / 0 / 2

Goal heart rate 70% (= 135 for me) kg reps comments

1 Quads squats free 0,00 50 0
2 hams deadlift free 0,00 40 0 next time faster to try for higher pulse?
3 back chin-ups machine 40,00 35 this is helping weight, the more weight = the easier
4 breast incline dumbbell flies 0
5 shoulder free dumbbell side laterals 0
6 bizeps free standing bizep curls
7 triceps rope pulldown
8 abs and lower back cable pull
9 hip thruster on floor
10 shoulder rotator

Reps are just counted out of interest.

Total training time was 26 Minutes.

(I did not really go for 2 / 0 / 2 strictly, eg with no weights at all it felt better to go fast to feel more)

Pulse was 110 maximum and 100-110 mostly. -> so that is ‘a problem’.

On the other by far the greatest reason for doing this
is helping my muscle building- making my off-days
‘better’ by doing ‘active regeneration’ with this type of training.

So I am not in it to train my endurance but do something productive on my off-days. My goal is muscle building so what helps with that is good (Lyle said cardio is good for better recovery through better bloodflow in muscles, and that it is endurance-training, and that the ability of body to burn fat is preserved for cutting-phase later and perhaps improved Calorie Partitioning).
I will give this 10 exercises each 2minutes continuous movement another go.

Gonna have a more exact plan next time and go from exercise to exercise faster (also I planned a much better route where I have only to walk a few meters to the next station). And guess I will change the tempo to quicker to make it more taxing for the heart (I guess it’s also better for much bloodflow in this part of the body for this 2 minutes). A mobile app that shows next exercise and times would be good too – I will try app Wrkout Hiit next time.

I also tried elliptical trainer (found it easy to hit 135 heart rate but is a bit more for legs) and rowing.

Rowing looks great! It seems to work like nearly all the muscles
there are. Legs push and pull, abs, back, upper body – I even
changed the grip and did bizep curl on every repetition for a
while. And it seems to be hard to get to 135 heart rate here,
which is also good cause I feel my muscles.

Comments, ideas, experiences very welcome..
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Unread 01-21-2016, 04:13 PM
AlphaBettor AlphaBettor is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 668

I promise this is the last old thread I will bump for a while

Adding a modest amount of cardio into my programming has been the best improvement to my training that I've made in a long time. I went a long time stuck in weight training + diet mode with no cardio, thinking the latter was useless. And truthfully, physique wise I did get pretty darn far.

I had a long layoff from weight training, but during that time I did make it a point to get some light training in-- simple bodyweight stuff, some walking, and moderate intensity cardio. The last several months I've been lifting weights again.

I've kept the walking, elliptical, and biking in (average of once a week per modality, maybe 30 minutes on the machines and longer on the walks) and the difference in how I recover on a set-to-set and workout-to-workout basis in the weight room is astounding. In the past I would huff and puff between sets, even with relatively low-moderate reps and 2-3 minutes rest per set. Obviously that still happens after hard sets, but it tends to start creeping in later in the workout and doesn't happen to the same extent. Even comparing very similar routines, my workouts are more productive and subjectively less difficult this time around.

This seems so obvious now that I type it up that it makes me wonder how I got it so wrong for such a long time.
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Unread 02-16-2016, 09:51 AM
jp471's Avatar
jp471 jp471 is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 241

Question: In the article there is mention of sipping the traditional Protein/Carb drink post workout....but I don't think it's specified...if doing, say 20-30 mins low to mod. cardio right after weight training....should you sip the Pro/CHO drink DURING cardio (but after weights), or immediately AFTER cardio and weights?

I've been doing the generic bulking program and have been doing some cardio as prescribed by the article in this thread with it. I've only been doing 2-4/week but I believe it's helping with all of the results mentioned.

Because i do feel it's valuable, I'm looking to put a little more stock into my cardio and hold myself to 4x week...20-30 mins. I'm going to try to do some cardio that involves upper body as well...probably try rowing, to try to enjoy some of the recovery benefits. I'll see if it's too taxing. Interested if the guy above ever had success with his "experiment".
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Unread 02-18-2016, 07:53 AM
AlphaBettor AlphaBettor is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 668

The article does address that near the end: "Doing it afterwards has less potential to impact on the weight room session itself but, for those compulsive about post-workout nutrition, does delay eating. A reasonable compromise would be to drink your post-workout drink while doing your cardio after the workout."

I'm not sure if you were talking about me or the guy above me (I'm not reading that) but I really didn't have an experiment. What I wrote is true, maybe a bit overstated as I read it now, but I have definitely noticed a benefit to keeping some cardio in even as I approach some of my old numbers. It's hard to account for all the variables like different routines, different lifting styles etc. but my best judgement is that keeping in some cardio has been a major positive and well worth the time.

As for the nutritional aspect of it, I don't bring anything to the gym. Usually I just eat breakfast-lunch-dinner and I work out before lunch or occasionally before dinner. Due to the length of time between meals (~6 hours or so) I will usually add something small before a workout.. e.g. whey shake and a piece of fruit. Right now I'm doing a push-legs-pull program rotated over 4 days per week and I sometimes do cardio after one of the push or pull workouts (not after legs though) and then once or maybe twice a week I'll do some cardio on an off day.

Last edited by AlphaBettor : 02-18-2016 at 07:59 AM.
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