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  #1  
Unread 02-16-2013, 01:45 AM
sakh sakh is offline
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Default DL replacement in 5x5 full body

I have decided to hold off on GBR for another 6-9 month and try IceCreamFitness 5x5 Novice routine first. It is a Stronglift based full body workout on 3 days per week schedule going ABA - BAB - etc.

A:

Squat 5x5
Bench press 5x5
Barbell row 5x5
Barbell shrug 3x8
Skullcrushers 3x8
Chinups 3x8
Goodmornings 3x8
Cable Crunch 3x10-20

B:

Squat 5x5
Deadlift 1x5
Military press 5x5
Barbell row 5x5 -10%
CGBP 3x8
Barbel curls 3x8
Cable Crunch 3x10-20

Two things that concern me. I want to replace conventional DLs with RDLs. But then I am not sure what volume to aim for. And whether they should be left where they are, before barbell rows, or at the end of the workout, after barbell rows.

Second thing is that A is a little too long. Are shrugs necessary for this workout, is this a good idea to remove them?
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  #2  
Unread 02-16-2013, 06:44 AM
Zemix Zemix is offline
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Posts: 536
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A few things

1) icecreamfitness overestimates how long someone is a beginner. You do not need a 400 squat/450+ deadlift to be considered intermediate....in fact that would usually be an advanced intermediate.

As Lyle and alberto at 3dmj say, some outgrow the beginner stage within their first 3-4 months of proper lifting. If you look trained in any way, you're intermediate. The intermediate phase lasts a few years.

2) If you are a true beginner...why are you doing 25-30 sets per workout? That's too much volume for a true beginner.

3) if you want to squat and do rdl's (for 2-4 sets) in the same day, lower the volume on this day. Otherwise the rest of your exercises will suffer at their expense. They'd be fine on a normal lower day but you got tons of upper movements to do after them.

Full body routines are usually good for beginning intermediates but the volume here is way too high. Get rid of shrugs, good mornings, and lower volume on the 3 set isolations for workout A down to 2 sets.

Last edited by Zemix : 02-16-2013 at 06:57 AM.
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  #3  
Unread 02-16-2013, 07:17 AM
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mrlakramondas mrlakramondas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sakh View Post
I have decided to hold off on GBR for another 6-9 month and try IceCreamFitness 5x5 Novice routine first. It is a Stronglift based full body workout on 3 days per week schedule going ABA - BAB - etc.

A:

Squat 5x5
Bench press 5x5
Barbell row 5x5
Barbell shrug 3x8
Skullcrushers 3x8
Chinups 3x8
Goodmornings 3x8
Cable Crunch 3x10-20

B:

Squat 5x5
Deadlift 1x5
Military press 5x5
Barbell row 5x5 -10%
CGBP 3x8
Barbel curls 3x8
Cable Crunch 3x10-20

Two things that concern me. I want to replace conventional DLs with RDLs. But then I am not sure what volume to aim for. And whether they should be left where they are, before barbell rows, or at the end of the workout, after barbell rows.

Second thing is that A is a little too long. Are shrugs necessary for this workout, is this a good idea to remove them?
That looks like overkill for a noob.
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  #4  
Unread 02-16-2013, 07:27 AM
sakh sakh is offline
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I trained for a year, but now have been absent from a gym for almost a month due to illness so think this may be my best shot to try a program like this since I can still progress to GBR from this if I find the frequency too high, but probably not the other way around. Volume should not be an issue, I can always adjust the number of sets to say 3x5 and 2x8 if I find it too difficult.

I am not sure about dropping goodmornings on a program that pushes 3x squats a week though, its such a staple for them.

Quote:
if you want to squat and do rdl's (for 2-4 sets) in the same day, lower the volume on this day. Otherwise the rest of your exercises will suffer at their expense.
What range do you have in mind? I was thinking keeping squats the same and doing 2-3 x 5 on RDLs.

Last edited by sakh : 02-16-2013 at 07:38 AM.
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  #5  
Unread 02-16-2013, 07:44 AM
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mrlakramondas mrlakramondas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sakh View Post
I trained for a year, but now have been absent from a gym for almost a month due to illness so think this may be my best shot to try a program like this since I can still progress to GBR from this if I find the frequency too high, but probably not the other way around. Volume should not be an issue, I can always adjust the number of sets to say 3x5 and 2x8 if I find it too difficult.

I am not sure about dropping goodmornings on a program that pushes 3x squats a week though, its such a staple for them.


What range do you have in mind? I was thinking keeping squats the same and doing 2-3 x 5 on RDLs.
Right, but what is the point in asking for advice then?
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  #6  
Unread 02-16-2013, 07:46 AM
sakh sakh is offline
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My question is about balancing RDLs. I don't know how taxing they are going to be in this program and looking for opinions on how much volume I should give them, since 1x5 seems too low and 5x5 probably an over kill after 5x5 squat.

Last edited by sakh : 02-16-2013 at 07:49 AM.
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  #7  
Unread 02-16-2013, 09:44 AM
farrenator farrenator is offline
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RDL can work your lower back pretty well so I would do them after rows. As far as reps, I get uneasy when doing them real heavy for 6 reps or less so I tend to go a bit lighter and stay in the 8-12 range. They are good for training your grip (don't use straps if you can avoid them), hamstrings and lower back - traps to some degree if you go heavy enough. Try 3 sets and go from there. From a lower back perspective, I would sequence it like this:
Squat
Military Press
Rows
RDL
etc

When I was squatting and deadlifting regularly I found that barbell rows were real tough on my lower back when things got heavy. I ended up switching them out for 1 arm dumbbell rows, supporting myself on a bench.

Not that you asked, but the volume does look a bit much. But if you can recover from it, go for it. Good luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sakh View Post
My question is about balancing RDLs. I don't know how taxing they are going to be in this program and looking for opinions on how much volume I should give them, since 1x5 seems too low and 5x5 probably an over kill after 5x5 squat.

Last edited by farrenator : 02-16-2013 at 09:49 AM.
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  #8  
Unread 02-16-2013, 09:54 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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Why are you choosing their program and making modifications to it?
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  #9  
Unread 02-16-2013, 10:03 AM
Zemix Zemix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sakh View Post
I trained for a year, but now have been absent from a gym for almost a month due to illness so think this may be my best shot to try a program like this since I can still progress to GBR from this if I find the frequency too high, but probably not the other way around. Volume should not be an issue, I can always adjust the number of sets to say 3x5 and 2x8 if I find it too difficult.

I am not sure about dropping goodmornings on a program that pushes 3x squats a week though, its such a staple for them.


What range do you have in mind? I was thinking keeping squats the same and doing 2-3 x 5 on RDLs.
If you trained properly for a year you should have added 15-20lbs of muscle by now. If you trained improperly for a year and didn't gain much for muscle mass.....then you should do a real beginner routine like starting strength or bill Starr's 5x5. If you're not a beginner then just do lyles generic bulk for a few cycles.

If you start adjusting volume on this routine too much it no longer becomes their routine....especially because it would still be high volume unless you deleted some exercises from it as I suggested. Also, doing 5x5 squats and then 3x5 RDL'S on workout B day will mean you probably won't get very far into the volume of that day cause ull be burned out from the heavy leg work.

Good mornings are not necessary to have a good squat. Youre squatting 3x a week, that will build a good squat. And deadlifts, leg curls, front squat (maybe leg press) will all assist your squat the most. Forget the good mornings.

Last edited by Zemix : 02-16-2013 at 10:20 AM.
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  #10  
Unread 02-16-2013, 04:39 PM
sakh sakh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
Why are you choosing their program and making modifications to it?
Cutting shrugs/adjusting volume a little is something that Jason talked about the past, so that should not cause problems. Only thing I change is deadlifts. Which I want to get rid of purely for safety reasons. I hope I can make it work without them. Otherwise I will have to dismiss 90% of programs out there.

Last edited by sakh : 02-16-2013 at 04:44 PM.
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