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  #51  
Unread 09-30-2010, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Uchi-mata View Post
I know many agree upon strenght numbers precedes hypertrophy, and many scientits will say the same, but my observation is rather the opposite, you get hypertophy as a "framwork" to strenght. First you get hypertrophy as a survival mecanism to stress. Then you can develop stenght within the possibilities this hypertropy framwork gives you.

So now you get ready to cut my head off ...
I am extremely far from being an expert but perhaps you have found what works, for you.

What I have read over and over is that if you're not on steroids pump training doesn't build big muscles. A natural must build strength to also build size.
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  #52  
Unread 09-30-2010, 02:02 PM
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I am extremely far from being an expert but perhaps you have found what works, for you.

What I have read over and over is that if you're not on steroids pump training doesn't build big muscles. A natural must build strength to also build size.
For the majority of people, yes

There are always the outliers that swear up and down volume training is the second coming of christ (Arnold, Uchi, ect)
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  #53  
Unread 09-30-2010, 02:49 PM
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Uchi-mata Uchi-mata is offline
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There are always the outliers that swear up and down volume training is the second coming of christ (Arnold, Uchi, ect)
LOL, its the opposite: In all the world of sport high volume is KING; swimmers, atletics, speed-skaters, olympic lifters, you name it, high volume rules! Then in Bodybuilding you have certain sects, the followers of Arthur Jones' HIT and Mike Mentzer's Heavy duty ect. These are the true religious belivers...
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  #54  
Unread 09-30-2010, 04:11 PM
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mrlakramondas mrlakramondas is offline
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Originally Posted by Uchi-mata View Post
LOL, its the opposite: In all the world of sport high volume is KING; swimmers, atletics, speed-skaters, olympic lifters, you name it, high volume rules! Then in Bodybuilding you have certain sects, the followers of Arthur Jones' HIT and Mike Mentzer's Heavy duty ect. These are the true religious belivers...
yes but there is a balance as research clearly shows when it comes to strength training.

bodybuilding isn't the same as the sports you mention. of course the (high) training volume is very important when you need to create an aerobic base and/or practice technique.

also in many cases it automatically becomes high when you need to train many abilities.

Last edited by mrlakramondas : 09-30-2010 at 04:18 PM.
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  #55  
Unread 09-30-2010, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mrlakramondas View Post
yes but there is a balance as research clearly shows when it comes to strength training.

bodybuilding isn't the same as the sports you mention. of course the (high) training volume is very important when you need to create an aerobic base and/or practice technique.

also in many cases it automatically becomes high when you need to train many abilities.
Very well, how do we then explain the big thighs and enormous Butts of the long distance speed-skaters? Those guys have some of the biggest quadriceps and gluteus maximus in the world of sport...
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  #56  
Unread 09-30-2010, 05:23 PM
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Not any more they don't (look up pictures of say Tucker Fredericks, a top sprinter, he's tiny). Ok, some of the Dutch maybe; they still field some monsters.
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  #57  
Unread 09-30-2010, 05:37 PM
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Not any more they don't (look up pictures of say Tucker Fredericks, a top sprinter, he's tiny). Ok, some of the Dutch maybe; they still field some monsters.
I was thinking about the long track guys, 5000 and 10000 meters. Guys like Koss, Heiden and Karlstad ect
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  #58  
Unread 10-02-2010, 06:24 PM
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Very well, how do we then explain the big thighs and enormous Butts of the long distance speed-skaters? Those guys have some of the biggest quadriceps and gluteus maximus in the world of sport...
quads are abit of a special case, that is true, as has been discussed here before. and there may also be a KAATSU effect going on in speed skating.

but you also have to remember that many of those guys also lift weights. for example Johann Olav Koss that you mention, he did very heavy squats as part of his training.

and don't forget factors such as genetics and drug use.

very high training volumes are certainly not needed to cause muscle growth. specially not if you lift heavy enough weights. you do too much and you risk sabotaging the growth signal. like I said there is a balance....there is a middle ground between 'arnold' volume and 1 set nonsense.
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  #59  
Unread 10-03-2010, 06:36 AM
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olympic lifters
why yes this example is surely going to work in your advance
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  #60  
Unread 10-03-2010, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by mrlakramondas View Post
quads are abit of a special case, that is true, as has been discussed here before. and there may also be a KAATSU effect going on in speed skating.

but you also have to remember that many of those guys also lift weights. for example Johann Olav Koss that you mention, he did very heavy squats as part of his training.

and don't forget factors such as genetics and drug use.

very high training volumes are certainly not needed to cause muscle growth. specially not if you lift heavy enough weights. you do too much and you risk sabotaging the growth signal. like I said there is a balance....there is a middle ground between 'arnold' volume and 1 set nonsense.
High volume training is a instrument to use when you get to a more advanced level. Of course a beginner or intermediate lifter dont need 30 sets per bodypart to grow, but when they get to a more advanced levels it may be a useful and nessecary tool. And if you want the body of a champion you must sooner or later train like a champion. In my view its much to simplistic to pull the cards of drugs and genetic to explain why high volume works. Its much more extraordinary when an advanced lifter get extreme results from a rather moderate or mediocre routine.

Extreme results from low or moderate imput is far more suspect concerning drugs or favorable genetics IMO.

Concerning speed skating, this disipline is known to produce big legs and butts from "the dawn of sports" - if its due to the KAATSU effect I dont know. But how do we then again explain the upper body of the male gymnasts or olympic wrestlers? Some of the top athletes in these sports train with a very high volume - up to 6 - 8 hours per day.
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