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  #1  
Unread 10-08-2010, 05:29 PM
Kenny537 Kenny537 is offline
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Default Supplements to compensate for deficient nutrients on a vegetarian (lacto-ovo) diet

Hello,

Please note that I am new here and new to serious fitness/nutrition as well (1 month, (22, 5'7'')). I am vegetarian (lacto-ovo) and have been all my life. (Although I regrettably did start taking fish oil a couple days ago).

I created this thread because I want to make sure I am not wasting more of my money before running off to the supplement store. I also have a question on iron and b12 intake. Please move this thread to supplements if you think that is more fitting, but I think it fits here as well.

I have been reading Lyle’s articles every chance I get and I have tried searching the forum.

Here are the supplements I currently use:
Whey/Casein, Fiber, Creatine, Fish Oil, Vit C, Multi, Melatonin, Superpump

Here are the supplements that I think I should buy based on my interpretation of Lyle’s Supplements Part 1 article.

- Calcium (1g) - current intake: (1.6g(but from 80% powders mainly.. + yogurt/tofu and multi)) Also not sure if it is calcium citrate.
- Vitamin D (2000 IUs) – current intake: 400 IU (multi)
- Zinc (25mg) + 400-500mg magnesium - current intake: 11 mg zinc, 40 mg mag (multi)


I also do eat at least a cup of broccoli, spinach, and cabbage every day, but based on my searches, this will still not be an adequate amount to reach the above levels.

Also, this article and others that I have searched for do not mention iron and b12 dosage. All I could find from Lyle was that he recommends red meat as a daily staple of any diet. He says iron, b12, zinc, and other deficiencies (anyone know some others he may be referring to?) may be seen in a vegetarian diet. He also mentions in another article that the iron is much better absorbed in meat than in vegetables. This leads me to conclude that I should supplement iron and b12 as well, but I have no idea how much.

So my 2 questions are:

1. Do you agree that I should buy supplements for the 3 things in bold above?
2. What should my daily iron and b12 intake be? My current intakes from the multi are 18mg, 18mcg respectively.

I also have a question on blood-work but I’ll save it for another thread.

Thank you and I apologize in advance for any ignorance in my post

Last edited by Kenny537 : 10-08-2010 at 05:41 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 10-08-2010, 07:46 PM
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Tauren Tauren is offline
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Everything in bold makes sense, except possibly the calcium. Your post isn't totally clear to me, but it seems you are getting enough through diet, which would make sense as a veggie.

Also, consider Lyle's point on Z&M, and getting them separately. After going through many tubs of Z&M, I finally got separate supps, and am finding Mag Citrate powder to be a godsend for sleep, whereas Z&M if anything made me sleep worse (damn b-vitamins).
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Unread 10-08-2010, 08:02 PM
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Potatoes Potatoes is offline
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I'm a vegetarian and I take a multi, and vitamin d. I'll also take some calcium depending on the day. I'd be interested to hear what others say but this seems to work for me.
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  #4  
Unread 10-09-2010, 01:32 AM
jam jam is offline
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u could save some $ and expose yrself to the sun instead of buying vitD
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Unread 10-09-2010, 06:23 AM
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Tauren Tauren is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jam View Post
u could save some $ and expose yrself to the sun instead of buying vitD
Depending on where you live in the world this may not be practical, as for some amount of the year the sun just won't be strong enough (unless you enjoy spending hours outside wearing little clothing in low temperatures).
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Unread 10-09-2010, 06:32 AM
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frank yangs left quad frank yangs left quad is offline
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Dairy is a really good source of calcium. You're more likely to get enough of it than not enough, if a high fraction of your daily protein comes from dairy.

I always have at least 100% RDI magnesium when I bother to count up my meals, but it's still one of my lowest minerals, so it could be worth it.

If you eat a good bit of whole grains, you're going to have enough minerals in theory.
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  #7  
Unread 10-09-2010, 09:20 AM
crosslark crosslark is offline
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Default Skip additional iron

Men generally do not need to supplement with iron and doing so may create additional oxidative stress. The exception to this would be iron deficiency anemia as shown on the CBC. Green leafy vegetables are a good source of iron. Even though it is not as easily absorbed as iron from red meat if you eat them regularly you are probably getting enough. Personally, I always get a multi without iron. There is some evidence that donating blood regularly is associated with better cardiovascular health in men. The thought is that this turns over the iron stores similar to menses in women.

Extra B vitamins can't hurt. Since they are water soluble you just pee out what you don't need. If you take massive doses there is a reversible toxicity with B6 but you would really have to overdo it.

If you want a vegetarian source of Omega3 there are formulations made from algae.
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  #8  
Unread 10-09-2010, 05:00 PM
Kenny537 Kenny537 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauren View Post
Everything in bold makes sense, except possibly the calcium. Your post isn't totally clear to me, but it seems you are getting enough through diet, which would make sense as a veggie.

Also, consider Lyle's point on Z&M, and getting them separately. After going through many tubs of Z&M, I finally got separate supps, and am finding Mag Citrate powder to be a godsend for sleep, whereas Z&M if anything made me sleep worse (damn b-vitamins).
My only calcium dairy supply is the yogurt (and sometimes cottage cheese). I guess I do get plenty of it through the calcium in the casein protein. Would supplementing extra calcium hurt me though?

Alright, I'll supplement z&m separately based on lyle's dosage recommendation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauren View Post
Depending on where you live in the world this may not be practical, as for some amount of the year the sun just won't be strong enough (unless you enjoy spending hours outside wearing little clothing in low temperatures).
Yeah, sun won't be an option very soon here in Chicago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frank yangs left quad View Post
Dairy is a really good source of calcium. You're more likely to get enough of it than not enough, if a high fraction of your daily protein comes from dairy.

I always have at least 100% RDI magnesium when I bother to count up my meals, but it's still one of my lowest minerals, so it could be worth it.

If you eat a good bit of whole grains, you're going to have enough minerals in theory.
Like I said, I barely get any dairy that isn't from the powders. Just the cup of yogurt everyday, occasionally cottage cheese. I don't eat a lot of grains currently. I am new to serious diet/fitness and I have a high body fat % .. so I am currently in a moderate calorie deficit with high protein/low carb. Started last month and it has been working quite well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crosslark View Post
Men generally do not need to supplement with iron and doing so may create additional oxidative stress. The exception to this would be iron deficiency anemia as shown on the CBC. Green leafy vegetables are a good source of iron. Even though it is not as easily absorbed as iron from red meat if you eat them regularly you are probably getting enough. Personally, I always get a multi without iron. There is some evidence that donating blood regularly is associated with better cardiovascular health in men. The thought is that this turns over the iron stores similar to menses in women.

Extra B vitamins can't hurt. Since they are water soluble you just pee out what you don't need. If you take massive doses there is a reversible toxicity with B6 but you would really have to overdo it.

If you want a vegetarian source of Omega3 there are formulations made from algae.
So I should not supplement iron until I get a CBC and check my levels? Does that come with a standard blood test? When I go to my PCP to get a blood test, what should I ask him to test for?

Yeah I know about the algae oil .. unfortunately the cost right now is way to expensive to obtain the 3g of EPA/DHA.. it is not practical right now with lyle's recommended dosage.

Thanks guys!

Last edited by Kenny537 : 10-09-2010 at 05:02 PM.
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  #9  
Unread 10-09-2010, 05:16 PM
crosslark crosslark is offline
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"So I should not supplement iron until I get a CBC and check my levels? Does that come with a standard blood test? When I go to my PCP to get a blood test, what should I ask him to test for?"

CBC is part of a basic blood panel which usually also includes a metabolic panel with liver functions, kidney functions, electrolytes, and usually lipids. Generally a urinalysis and TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) is also done. If you want more info you might ask him to do testosterone levels (total test and free test), B12, folate and the inflammatory markers CRP and homocysteine. Unless you are iron deficient (unlikely) supplementing with iron could do more harm than good.
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