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  #1  
Unread 03-02-2016, 10:52 AM
MiDKnighT MiDKnighT is offline
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Default Help Me With My Diet Strategy...

OK so I was somewhat obese when I started this journey.

I am 6 foot 3, and when I started dieting I was about 260 pounds.

I started using myfitnesspal and did some cutting (up to 2 pounds per week) and am now down to 223. Note that I also do a lot of workouts on the side, weights, martial arts, cardio, etc...

Recently I got some calipers and learned some painful truth... I'm close to my target weight but my body composition is definitely not what I want and I still have a bit of a gut (smaller, but still there and obvious).

Using the Jackson/Pollock 4 Caliper Method @ http://www.linear-software.com/online.html I found that...

My current LBM is 175 pounds.
My current body fat % is about 21.5

I guess my long term goal is to have a LBM of 200+ pounds while keeping body fat % at 10-15%.

How best to get there? If I were to keep cutting a lot to get to 10% body fat I'd need to drop to under 200 pounds which is too light for me IMO. I've already done nearly 40 pounds of cutting and the thought of cutting 20+ more pounds...ugh. I want some muscle mass! Do I have to drop to 10-12% body fat before bulking or should I do it incrementally?

My current plan is:
  1. Cut to 210 (13 more pounds) while trying to keep the lean mass on. This would put me at about 17% body fat at best.
  2. Do a mini bulk up to 230 or so.
  3. Cut back to 210 while trying to keep lean mass on.
  4. Do a mini bulk up to 230 or so.
    etc...until I get to 200+ LBM and < 230 pounds total weight.

Does that sound reasonable? Should I alter my strategy?

Last edited by MiDKnighT : 03-02-2016 at 11:32 AM. Reason: LBM
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  #2  
Unread 03-04-2016, 11:04 AM
Sam Hell Jr. Sam Hell Jr. is offline
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Great work so far.

Based on my similar experience, albeit at about 6/10s your scale ... Give yourself permission to be lighter and keep cutting. Whatever you're doing is working. Why stop?

6 foot 3, 190 lbs and lean is a pretty seriously big dude, irrespective of what the rest of the internet might have to say on the matter. $0.02, stay the course, re evaluate in four to six months.

Last edited by Sam Hell Jr. : 03-04-2016 at 11:13 AM.
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  #3  
Unread 03-04-2016, 04:41 PM
Txomin Txomin is offline
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+1
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Eat/train as much as you need not as much as you can
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  #4  
Unread 03-05-2016, 08:39 AM
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Hectic Hectic is offline
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i like your strategy but maybe 10kg in 1 bulk is a bit much i would call that getting fat again rather than a mini bulk - unless your on something; i'd drop it to 4kg or less. in fact aim for 0.5kg /week and don't bulk for longer than 6-8 weeks. The more frequently you switch between bulk and cut the more you will be able to harness the advantages that come with starting a new cycle

in my opinion the most difficult but most crucial key to your success will be putting the weight back on carefully and effectively without going too far

be careful of cutting forever. There's a lot of people on these forums with hormonal problems and mental problems who probably pushed themselves that bit further than they should have

the longer you diet and lose weight the less progress you will make as your metabolism drops and the more scared you are to lose your 'leanness' which can lead you down a dark path.

Last edited by Hectic : 03-05-2016 at 08:48 AM.
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  #5  
Unread 03-05-2016, 09:09 AM
truthisharmful truthisharmful is offline
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at your weight you can simply rfl for 2-4 more weeks, be leaner than you ever were and start slow bulking for a longer time
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  #6  
Unread 03-05-2016, 11:37 AM
AlphaBettor AlphaBettor is offline
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Good work on your progress so far. Sometimes it is hard to plan things out so far in advance but at 21.5% BF you should keep cutting. There's no question about that.

Quote:
I guess my long term goal is to have a LBM of 200+ pounds while keeping body fat % at 10-15%.

How best to get there?
The short answer (assuming no drugs/steroids):

Be 6'3", have a large frame (thick wrists and ankles, etc), good genetics for weight training, train hard on sensible programs for a long time, eat/sleep/recover well for a long time, and you could probably manage that goal. If any of those things are not true then you will probably fall short. 200+lb LBM on a lean natural man is very uncommon.

Quote:
My current plan is:
Cut to 210 (13 more pounds) while trying to keep the lean mass on. This would put me at about 17% body fat at best.
Do a mini bulk up to 230 or so.
I don't think that is a good plan. 17% is not a good place to do a 20lb bulk at. Maybe get down to 210lb and reassess from there.
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  #7  
Unread 03-05-2016, 12:17 PM
lylemcdonald lylemcdonald is offline
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So gaining 25 lbs of LBM and maintaining a lower bodyfat? Good luck.

"I guess my long term goal is to have a LBM of 200+ pounds while keeping body fat % at 10-15%. "

From
"My current LBM is 175 pounds.
My current body fat % is about 21.5"
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  #8  
Unread 03-07-2016, 11:52 AM
MiDKnighT MiDKnighT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaBettor View Post
The short answer (assuming no drugs/steroids):

Be 6'3", have a large frame (thick wrists and ankles, etc), good genetics for weight training, train hard on sensible programs for a long time, eat/sleep/recover well for a long time, and you could probably manage that goal. If any of those things are not true then you will probably fall short. 200+lb LBM on a lean natural man is very uncommon.

I don't think that is a good plan. 17% is not a good place to do a 20lb bulk at. Maybe get down to 210lb and reassess from there.
Thanks for the advice everybody. For the record my wrist size is 7 inches and my ankle size is 9 inches which is average I guess. From what I'm seeing it's possible to get to 200 LBM with those dimensions but it would be difficult of course.

I'll follow everyone's advice and keep cutting. I'll get down to 210 then do a body fat % re-check and see what to do from there.

I'm not going to go full RFL as that seems a bit extreme for what I'm trying to do (and my wife is like the iron chef making yummy dinners) but I will aim for about 130g of carbs per day, 25% fat, and 200g or so of protein per day which has been working well for me so far (but yes, much slower than RFL). And if I did full RFL I'm afraid my energy will suffer and when you do martial arts, that means getting beat up
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  #9  
Unread 03-08-2016, 02:33 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hell Jr. View Post
6 foot 3, 190 lbs and lean is a pretty seriously big dude, irrespective of what the rest of the internet might have to say on the matter. $0.02, stay the course, re evaluate in four to six months.
86kg at 6'3", lean. Not to be contrarian, but I'm going to say that those stats do not translate to "a pretty seriously big dude", either by bro standards or by regular Joe standards. My own brother, a tennis player, is 191cm tall with weight fluctuating around 195 lbs. He has a great six pack. He's never lifted weights a day in his life, and doesn't look like he does either. I bet there are plenty of people on this here website that would offer similar stories. Hell, I'm much shorter at 183cm, and I'm 85kg or so and quite lean. I am by no means a 'pretty seriously big dude'.

People at the lofty heights of 6'3 and above are usually considerably heavier than people at 5'11 and below, while still being relatively lean. To look really jacked at that height, they gotta be even heavier. Also, they probably need to be pushing more weight than the jacked short person (muscle length, etc). It's hard for most very tall guys to look that bulked while lean.

Last edited by BigPecsPeter : 03-08-2016 at 02:37 AM.
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  #10  
Unread 03-08-2016, 08:19 AM
AlphaBettor AlphaBettor is offline
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It depends on a lot of things, e.g. bone structure and what exactly we mean by 'lean'. Lean as in shredded/bodybuilder in competition shape/5% is a whole lot different than lean by societal standards-- say 15% with abs poking out, which we might consider the upper limit of what is acceptable for this discussion.

I'm 6'2", have been working out seriously for well over ten years, and I've never been 10% bodyfat at 200lb. Maybe 190. (I wish I would have kept better track of this stuff over the years but having a clear 6 pack at 190 would not be unusual for me) Anytime I've gone into the 210-220 range, I've gotten bigger/stronger but lean I was not. And I looked and felt worse in that range too.

For some frame of reference, I have below average bone structure (especially in the lower body), joints are not very robust, so I don't think I'm particularly gifted for weights. On the other hand, I have responded pretty well to most types of training I've done. So I guess I don't really fit neatly into any of the simplistic categories (ecto, meso, hard gainer, easy gainer, etc)

I am pretty big by any normal standards, it's not uncommon for people to ask for advice at the gym and that kind of stuff. But I'm not massive by any stretch, I've never used roids and people don't assume/question that I do (that only really happened at heavier bodyweights, even though I wasn't really lean at those weights).

6'3" with 200LBM at 10-15% BF puts someone at 222-235 BW, obviously the lower end of that range (i.e. 10% BF) is a lot more impressive but that would be one seriously jacked dude. For anyone who follows NFL/American football, that would be along the lines of Julio Jones or Kam Chancellor-- guys who are known as freaks even in the National Freak League. I don't know any natural guy who lifts weights that looks like that.* Of course, there is no guarantee those guys are natural, but it is a drug tested league and that's about the best that can be done. Either way, we're talking about young, genetically elite black athletes with large bone structure, who have lifted heavy weights for years, etc.

*Edit: at that height (6'3"ish)

Last edited by AlphaBettor : 03-08-2016 at 08:34 AM.
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