Help Me With My Diet Strategy...

[BigPecsPeter]

Originally Posted by AlphaBettor

It depends on a lot of things, e.g. bone structure and what exactly we mean by 'lean'. Lean as in shredded/bodybuilder in competition shape/5% is a whole lot different than lean by societal standards-- say 15% with abs poking out, which we might consider the upper limit of what is acceptable for this discussion.

I'm 6'2", have been working out seriously for well over ten years, and I've never been 10% bodyfat at 200lb. Maybe 190. (I wish I would have kept better track of this stuff over the years but having a clear 6 pack at 190 would not be unusual for me) Anytime I've gone into the 210-220 range, I've gotten bigger/stronger but lean I was not. And I looked and felt worse in that range too.

For some frame of reference, I have below average bone structure (especially in the lower body), joints are not very robust, so I don't think I'm particularly gifted for weights. On the other hand, I have responded pretty well to most types of training I've done. So I guess I don't really fit neatly into any of the simplistic categories (ecto, meso, hard gainer, easy gainer, etc)

I am pretty big by any normal standards, it's not uncommon for people to ask for advice at the gym and that kind of stuff. But I'm not massive by any stretch, I've never used roids and people don't assume/question that I do (that only really happened at heavier bodyweights, even though I wasn't really lean at those weights).

6'3" with 200LBM at 10-15% BF puts someone at 222-235 BW, obviously the lower end of that range (i.e. 10% BF) is a lot more impressive but that would be one seriously jacked dude. For anyone who follows NFL/American football, that would be along the lines of Julio Jones or Kam Chancellor-- guys who are known as freaks even in the National Freak League. I don't know any natural guy who lifts weights that looks like that. Of course, there is no guarantee those guys are natural, but it is a drug tested league and that's about the best that can be done. Either way, we're talking about young, genetically elite black athletes with large bone structure, who have lifted heavy weights for years, etc.

You speak a lot of truth. Getting to looking seriously jacked and lean at that height is not easy. There are of course those few gifted naturals who manage it without much difficulty, but most have a serious uphill struggle without drugs.

Compare this to shorter guys, e.g. those of 5'6". The job is trivial by comparison. Gyms are full of short and ripped dudes.

[MiDKnighT]

Ya I highly doubt I'll ever be a Julio Jones type.

Maybe my long term goals are unrealistic. 190 LBM and 15% BF might be a little more realistic.

Right now I'm close to 180 LBM and about 20% BF.

And I totally agree about the height thing and having to push more weight. I'm lifting twice as much weight as some of the short, jacked looking dudes at my gym and my arms and legs don't look impressive at all...

[Sam Hell Jr.]

I appreciate both your replies. I am reading between the lines, but OP seems to have a bugaboo about weighing less than 200 lbs, despite the fact that at 200 lbs he'll probably be 15% bf or more. My own experience with trying to slow bulk at 15-20% after dieting down was that I got fat again. If I'm right, OP, I recommend that you conquer your fears and finish the cut. There is a danger in abandoning what is working - and again, kudos for how far you have come - just as there is a danger in sticking with what isn't. If I'm wrong, then I apologize for playing keyboard therapist.

[BigPecsPeter]

At 6'3" you can certainly be 200lbs in TOTAL WEIGHT and have 10-12% body fat. This is not such a difficult target. You won't be massively jacked, don't get me wrong, but you will be in good shape. Quite muscly, just not huge.

[MiDKnighT]

Update: I've been slowly cutting and am down to about 215. Guessing my body fat is about 20% but it's still mostly hanging around my gut... I've been stalled out at 215 for about a month. I'm wondering if my post workout protein shake with dextrose is hurting me. Maybe I should cut down on the dextrose, etc... while I'm still cutting.

I won't go full RFL because I do martial arts and need energy but I have some options on how to continue. What do you guys think?

- Cut down on sugar and carbs more. No more than 130g of carbs per day. To try to get myself unstuck...

or

- Do a 2 week mini bulk (0.5 pound per week gain) to try to fix my metabolism then restart my cut.

[MiDKnighT]

Update: Down to 208 now with a lean mass of about 167 pounds. Continuing to cut but it's going sloooowly.

[Schulzi]

I'm 6'2 (188cm) with bad bone structure (5,9 inch wrists or so), bad hormone levels (skinny fat), bad genetical fat distribution (face, love handles),bad joints (knee pain since forever, shoulder problems).

The best I managed yet in terms of body composition was ~ 175lbs at 10%. But since I have long legs and short torso + didn't work out my legs as much as I should have, my torso looked a bit more muscular than the average 6'2 175 lbs person I suppose.

I have to say though: aesthetically, once my love handles disappear and my midsection becomes slim, that makes all the difference in the world. Being lanky with a fat midsection really destroys the look. But once I have a nice V-form and can wear good fitting clothes, I'm really happy with how I look.

My point is: it took me years of bulking and cutting at higher bodyfat levels because I always felt too skinny. Had I known how happy I would be with my look at lower levels of bodyfat, that would have saved me years of OCD like behavior trying to micromanage my diet etc. for dem gainz.

Also, low bodyfat really is a game changer when it comes to facial aesthetics. At least for me it was.

So I guess my advice would be to slim down first, see how happy you are and then simply try to put on more muscle from that baseline instead of focusing on some abstract numbers.

[MiDKnighT]

Update: I cut down to 200 then had a bugaboo about going below 200 so decided to go into maintenance mode (or perhaps a very slow bulk) and just try to mostly eat right. While in maintenance/slow bulk mode I got up to 207 and after seeing my belly protruding far more than I want it to, decided to start a new cut. Plus summer is coming and want to be able to go to the pool without embarrassment over my gut.

According to current measurements I'm at 204 pounds and my LBM is somewhere between 164 and 169. BF % somewhere between 16% and 19% depending on which method for measuring is used.

I am going to get over my 200 pound issues and target 190 next. I'm going to war with my belly fat. I'm also going to add a few more strategies to kill some belly fat:

1. Light fasted cardio before breakfast. Ie...walking the dog for 30-60 min. I already lift weights or do martial arts most evenings.

2. Somewhat intermittent fasting. Going to only eat between 10am and 8-10pm.

3. Cutting sugar more. No more dextrose in my post workout shake while cutting and no more Gatorade post workout. I had already been mostly avoiding other sugars. The only sugars left in my normal diet is low sodium V8 once a day (for potassium) and lowfat milk in my post workout shake.

4. Cutting carbs more. Going very low carbs on non workout days. Will only do pre/post workout carbs on workout days.

[Totentanz]

Just for your own benefit, look back over this thread and realize that you are almost the exact same body composition as you were a year ago. So hopefully you really are over this fear of going under 200 because you wasted an entire year because of it.
Next year, what do you want to be posting as an update to this thread?

[MiDKnighT]

Originally Posted by Totentanz

Just for your own benefit, look back over this thread and realize that you are almost the exact same body composition as you were a year ago. So hopefully you really are over this fear of going under 200 because you wasted an entire year because of it.
Next year, what do you want to be posting as an update to this thread?

Really the last 6 months were somewhat wasted, not the last year. It was the last 6 months that I went to maintenance mode for the most part. Maintenance mode sux. I'm gonna finish out this cut and really get to sub 15% and start bulking for real.