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  #11  
Unread 12-12-2017, 01:14 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Determinism View Post
Two questions:
- Why 4x a week in an upper/lower split instead of 2 full body workouts to gradually increase training volume? Would've probably provided a little more headroom and a little less DOMS.
- Did you take into consideration that you lost neural adaptions and work capacity? It will probably come back after a few workouts.
1. Good question. What you describe would be the correct way to return to training after weeks off. My reason for doing it this way is simply a curiosity for knowing what adaptations are lost, keeping everything exactly the same, like for like.

2. I think you are right in that these are definitely also factors in addition to loss of muscle glycogen. I'm curious to see how quicky any changes can be overturned and matters back exactly to where they were
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  #12  
Unread 12-12-2017, 02:59 AM
squat squat is offline
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1 year off: 3 months to recover
3 months off: 2 weeks
1 month: 3 days
2 weeks: stronger
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  #13  
Unread 12-12-2017, 06:32 AM
Determinism Determinism is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPecsPeter View Post
1. Good question. What you describe would be the correct way to return to training after weeks off. My reason for doing it this way is simply a curiosity for knowing what adaptations are lost, keeping everything exactly the same, like for like.

2. I think you are right in that these are definitely also factors in addition to loss of muscle glycogen. I'm curious to see how quicky any changes can be overturned and matters back exactly to where they were
Makes sense. Good luck with the upcoming training sessions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by squat View Post
1 year off: 3 months to recover
3 months off: 2 weeks
1 month: 3 days
2 weeks: stronger
Those numbers are based on your own experience?
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  #14  
Unread 12-12-2017, 04:50 PM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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UPPER A

Ok, so time for the write-up on this morning's upper body workout.

Quote:
UPPER A

Bench 3x6-8
Bent over row 3x6-8
Incline press 2x10-12
Pulldown 2x10-12
Biceps 2x12-15
Triceps 2x12-15
BENCH PRESS

Eek. I calculated the total break since the previous bench at 18 days. Damn. I was pretty damn worried about this one being a total blowout, as chest is often the first thing to go weak, or so conventional wisdom claims. But it was to be my first move, the front end of the workout, and I was fresh.

Like with the leg press on Monday, I was surprised to find my bench rather good. Rep-wise I made 7-6-6, and in all honesty I probably could have gone beyond 6 on sets 2 and 3, but was equally happy to stop at that. This performance felt as good as previous ones, and while occasionally I had managed to better it, it reflected a good number of the workouts I had towards the end of my last bulk. In sum, nay too shabby. I was surprised.,

BENT OVER ROW

Reps, 6-6-6. This felt fine, honestly. I couldn't detect much if any difference to prior performances at the end of my bulk.

INCLINE CHEST PRESS

Okay, so on this one the first set felt strong and I made 12 reps. The second set, not quite so good. I just about got to 10, though I won't lie, it was a struggle. Stamina starting to wane? Let's see.

LAT PULLDOWN

Before my trip, I felt ready to progress on this one. Back then I had reached 12 reps on the first set with at least another 2 reps in the bag. Today, I only had the stamina to get to 12 reps on the first set. On the second set, I struggled to just about reach 10. Yes, stamina definitely running out. Totally dreading the next thing on the agenda.

BICEP CURLS

Oh my goodness, I really was toast at this point. Usually I'd easily make 15 reps and maybe 14 on the second of the two sets. But today it was a struggle to get beyond 12 on the first set, and I absolutely struggled even reaching 12 on the second. No stamina. Want to leave the gym. I'm trashed.

TRICEP CABLE PUSHDOWN

The first set of this felt good, but the second was a total struggle and I just made the bottom end of the rep range with a very slight cheat at the end. I'm done. Getting out of the gym as soon as possible.

ANALYSIS

This workout was not altogether bad, but, like yesterday, performance exponentially dwindled over the course of the workout in spite of starting strong. Again, it seemed to me like the main issue was a lack of stamina in the muscles. That's how it felt. Sets would start off feeling great, then body totally craps out on you half of your reps in. That weird old depletion sensation.

As with yesterday, I'm very curious to see to what extent this has improved by next week.

But, the encouraging thing is that nothing was dreadfully bad. No catastrophic strength losses. On the whole, it was satisfactory.
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  #15  
Unread 12-12-2017, 08:04 PM
alcahuetej's Avatar
alcahuetej alcahuetej is offline
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Interesting log.

I've had a few surgeries over the past few years in which I was bed ridden the first week, and couldn't lift at all for about 2 - 4 weeks.

No real noticeable muscle loss, and strength came back just fine. I had to gradually lift heavier anyways due to doctor's orders. I had no problem (that I recall anyways) getting my strength back to normal around 6 - 8 weeks post surgery.

This was a slow ramp up in weights from ~week 3/4 post surgery.
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  #16  
Unread 12-13-2017, 02:39 AM
Determinism Determinism is offline
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It seems as if the only thing that has suffered, is your work capacity. That's actually a very satisfying result.

Question:
Why do you train biceps directly after pull down?
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  #17  
Unread 12-13-2017, 03:52 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Determinism View Post
It seems as if the only thing that has suffered, is your work capacity. That's actually a very satisfying result.

Question:
Why do you train biceps directly after pull down?
This is a good question, as ideally, like you say, it should be triceps first and then biceps.

The answer, and it's not a good answer, is that previously I didn't do tricep isolation at all, so biceps was the end of my routine falling immediately after pulldowns. I guess the habit just stuck. Reckon it matters that much? I thought incidentally that I might get some additional fatigue adaptations out of having them back to back, and some extra pump. Maybeeeee.
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  #18  
Unread 12-13-2017, 04:15 AM
Determinism Determinism is offline
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I feel that I can overload them better when having an exercise in between. It also matters on the way you approach things and individual preference. If you want to cause as much metabolic stress as possible, back to back is probably better. If you want to focus solely on overload, having some time in between is probably more optimal. Anyway, it doesn't matter much.
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  #19  
Unread 12-13-2017, 07:02 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Determinism View Post
I feel that I can overload them better when having an exercise in between. It also matters on the way you approach things and individual preference. If you want to cause as much metabolic stress as possible, back to back is probably better. If you want to focus solely on overload, having some time in between is probably more optimal. Anyway, it doesn't matter much.
Good tips, cheers. I guess, like you say, there's advantages on both ends.


No workout for me today, but let me say one thing:

HOLY CRAP, the DOMS! THE DOMS! It's horrible!
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  #20  
Unread 12-15-2017, 03:32 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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Didn't write yesterday so let's start with yesterday's workout:

Quote:
LEGS B

Deadlift 3x6-8
Ham curl 3x6-8
Leg press 2x10-12
Lunge 2x10-12 (ya, I know this isn't a hamstring dominant exercise for the sharp-eyed among you; I don't feel I need a further hammie move in this second leg workout)
Straight calf 3x6-8
Seated calf 2x10-12
A long and nasty workout that I detest even at peak fitness and form.

DEADLIFT

First out the bag. Set 1 felt very strong and I made the full 8 reps without much problem. Yeah, I know people often say "don't deadlift for 8 reps", but honestly, if you're not a total idiot and you're lifting weights you're supposed to be, then why not? Anyway, that's another discussion for another place.

Set 2 was harder, as was Set 3. I guess this isn't too surprising even in the best of times, but in this instance I could feel fatigue creeping in fast. Ok, enough deadlifting. Time for the curl.

HAM CURL

This immediately felt stronger than it did on Monday, which was good news. Even so, by the 3rd set it was feeling quite taxing.

LEG PRESS

This went surprisingly well, given the high rep scheme. I managed a full 12 reps on the first set, and managed to get to 10 on the second. In truth, the second was a struggle and form was starting to feel funny by the end, but I was happy enough with having got within the rep range.

DUMBBELL LUNGES

By this point, pretty worn out, and for this exercise I do two sets on one side followed by two sets on the other side, so it's a bit of a biatch. In fact, as it turned out, this one didn't feel too hard. I'd say all considered it was pretty strong.

CALVES, STRAIGHT LEG

My usual machine was being hogged by somebody else, so I used the angled leg press. This exercise felt fine, but since I wasn't completely sure what weight to use on the available machine, I was probably lifting slightly too light.

SEATED CALF RAISE

As on Monday, this felt pretty good, even better actually, and I think I ought to be progressing on it quite soon.

ABS

The workout unfortunately had gone on rather too long, so I decided to bail on abs this time round.


ANALYSIS

Seems to me it was more of the same. Burning out a little too easily, but some signs of improvement on Monday in a couple respects.

I'm expecting (hoping!) the real leaps in work capacity will start to show up next week.

On the nutrition side, I've been trying to re-build up my muscle glycogen levels with a high carb, slightly higher calorie intake than usual. The training, of course, will be the most important thing for achieving this, but the extra calories are essential.

Next write-up will be on my final upper body workout of the week, which, in the spirit of "here's one I prepared earlier", was already completed this morning.
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