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  #11  
Unread 06-20-2011, 08:23 PM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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You would be amazed at just how insecure a lot of these guys and Thib is clearly pretty butthurt over me. It's probably a lot of what drives them to start lifting in the first place: they hope by getting big and strong they can stay safe in a big scary world. Oh the stories I could (but won't) tell about stuff I've run into over the years. If you get bored google up the book Gorilla Suit by an old 80's bodybuilder.
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  #12  
Unread 06-20-2011, 09:06 PM
easyrhino easyrhino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popupwindow View Post
^ Irony here is too strong.
It's like a weird shadow blog.
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  #13  
Unread 06-20-2011, 09:28 PM
williamethan williamethan is offline
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I recall Schwarzeneggar (as quoted by Joe Weider in Stand Tall) saying he could have done much better if he had Ferrigno's genetics. Never mind that Arnold's incredible drive and tenacity may partly be something he was born with (in addition to his obvious physical gifts).

It's psychologically satisfying to think that the other guy is gifted while you had to work for it. This may also be why you occasionally get really heavy boned guys telling light boned guys that if they'd just train as hard they could be as strong. See also champion bodybuilders pointing out how they won despite having weak calves or other imperfections. It's part of the "If I can do it anybody can" mindset.
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  #14  
Unread 06-20-2011, 10:02 PM
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Endz Endz is offline
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I like both the Talent vs Work article and the Hard Works Trumps Everything article. LM's article is obviously technical/scientific and CTs is just a motivational writeup but still both enjoyable.

In reference to the "enough drugs to kill an elephant" comment...

Drugs do have their place. I think in many ways they are a great equalizer; for those lacking the genetic gifts/talent as Lyle defines in his article, drugs can compensate for a lot.

But I also think they are used as an excuse by some naturals who need some reason to blame why they aren't where they want to be.

I hate to see an accomplished athlete have his/her accomplishments dissected and diminished by those who say it's primarily drugs doing the hard work... That in my mind is childish and petty.
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  #15  
Unread 06-21-2011, 04:31 AM
djc djc is offline
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On the other hand, you will see some drugged up steroid user sneering at a ripped 190-200 pound natural as small, when, in fact, you aren't getting much bigger than that without drugs.
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  #16  
Unread 06-21-2011, 05:47 AM
popupwindow popupwindow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endz View Post
I like both the Talent vs Work article and the Hard Works Trumps Everything article. LM's article is obviously technical/scientific and CTs is just a motivational writeup but still both enjoyable.

In reference to the "enough drugs to kill an elephant" comment...

Drugs do have their place. I think in many ways they are a great equalizer; for those lacking the genetic gifts/talent as Lyle defines in his article, drugs can compensate for a lot.

But I also think they are used as an excuse by some naturals who need some reason to blame why they aren't where they want to be.

I hate to see an accomplished athlete have his/her accomplishments dissected and diminished by those who say it's primarily drugs doing the hard work... That in my mind is childish and petty.
I don't mind if people do drugs, as long as they don't lie about it.
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  #17  
Unread 06-21-2011, 06:33 AM
OPS OPS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williamethan View Post
I recall Schwarzeneggar (as quoted by Joe Weider in Stand Tall) saying he could have done much better if he had Ferrigno's genetics. Never mind that Arnold's incredible drive and tenacity may partly be something he was born with (in addition to his obvious physical gifts).
The ability to put in hard work can also be considered a talent. Genetics play a role in how much drive a person has. I remember reading about a
scientific experiment that turned monkeys into workaholics by suppressing a certain gene involved with reward learning.
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  #18  
Unread 06-21-2011, 06:45 AM
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Endz Endz is offline
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Quote:
On the other hand, you will see some drugged up steroid user sneering at a ripped 190-200 pound natural as small, when, in fact, you aren't getting much bigger than that without drugs.
djc: I never sneered, you misinterpreted. I didn't realize I hurt your feelings in that other thread and I apologize. But I sure hope you never use E+C because that makes you a 'drugged up stimulant user.'

I have friends who compete in both natural bodybuilding and natural powerlifting, I have all the respect in the world for their accomplishments.
When I call them small to their faces, they know I mean no disrespect.

Compared to the big guys in their sports, they are small and there's no dishonour in that. Hell compared the the big guys in PLing and BBing I'm only medium sized lol...
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  #19  
Unread 06-21-2011, 07:11 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endz View Post
I like both the Talent vs Work article and the Hard Works Trumps Everything article. LM's article is obviously technical/scientific and CTs is just a motivational writeup but still both enjoyable.

In reference to the "enough drugs to kill an elephant" comment...

Drugs do have their place. I think in many ways they are a great equalizer; for those lacking the genetic gifts/talent as Lyle defines in his article, drugs can compensate for a lot.

But I also think they are used as an excuse by some naturals who need some reason to blame why they aren't where they want to be.

I hate to see an accomplished athlete have his/her accomplishments dissected and diminished by those who say it's primarily drugs doing the hard work... That in my mind is childish and petty.
Except that Thib claims to be drug free to help pimp T-nation supplements and that is my issue. Because saying that hard work or Anaconda is responsible for your physique when it's drugs is a boldfaced lie and that's my issue with him even if it's the lie that the industry revolves around.

He came here a while back to try to defend himself. Go read his posts in that thread and watch him weasel around and make himself look a fool. He uses his status to dupe folks who trust him out of money they don't have for supplements don't work and is too pathetic to even take responsibility for his actions.

So screw him, screw T-nation and screw anybody who defends his crap.

Basically, I could care less that he does drugs. I could care less if you do drugs. I could care less than Lance Armstrong does drugs. I could care less than anybody does drugs. Hell, if I was anywhere close to where they'd matter, I'd use drugs.

I care that he lies about it. And that he uses those lies to dupe trusting people out of their money. he did it with Anaconda and, so far as I can tell, made the same claims about their new scam Indigo-3. When it's drugs. Which he claims not to use. Because he's a lying sack.

Unnerstand the distinction?
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  #20  
Unread 06-21-2011, 08:04 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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Also consider that before he 'went to the next level' (I remember when this happened he was prepping for a show and had stalled and went to see a 'Canadian contest prep guru' and taht always means 'drug guru') his training was pretty reasonable, lots of research, etc.

Then he turned into a bodybuilder and lost his mind. Now his training advice is teh same once/week blasts, multi-angle, high-volume overcomplicated crap taht has been around since steroids infested the sport; the kind of training that rarely works for naturals. Maybe with Anaconda and Indigo-3 (hahahahahah)

For a giggle, go look at what he states is a good rate of muscle gain for folks in his second book (Big Black Book). About 10-12 lbs/year. Then his name is being used to back Anaconda's claims of 30+ lbs LBM in 6 weeks. Gee, what changed except that t-nation rolled a truckload of money up to his door and he became a monster sellout. Go look at the thread he tried to defend himself about this in. It's hysterical just to see how pathetic he is.

And instead of research his rationale for listening to him is simply "I'm bigger than you." So he's pimping worthless overpriced supplements and giving poor training advice and using his drug fueled gains as his reason for listening to him. That's what I have a problem with.

So screw him.
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