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  #11  
Unread 04-18-2008, 07:53 AM
Guerly Guerly is offline
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sorry take 119x 16 = 1904 calories per day, I think you may need to up this amount, seems low.
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  #12  
Unread 04-18-2008, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meeshathecat View Post
Yeah that does look like a really good diabetic day so much appreciation - but what do you mean by body weight x 16?. Im 5'7 and 119lbs but 30% bf thanks to a recent DKA
get into a basic progressive lifting program
bring protein up to at least 1 g/lb
create a slight caloric deficit (no more than 20% below maintenance)

you should be able to gain some muscle while losing fat.

the diet you posted is absolutely awful
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  #13  
Unread 04-18-2008, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Guerly View Post
sorry take 119x 16 = 1904 calories per day, I think you may need to up this amount, seems low.
at 30% bodyfat, all this will do is make her fatter and given teh role between adipocytokines and insulin resistance (even for a type I), I think that's a mistake

she should be able to lose some fat while gaining muscle by adjusting her diet and getting into proper training
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  #14  
Unread 04-18-2008, 11:30 AM
meeshathecat meeshathecat is offline
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Firstly - How is my diet awful? Suggestions please rather than out and out critisism.

Secondly even fatter! Yeah nice, thanks for that - I wasn't allways 30 percent bodyfat if you'd read my earlier post you would see that due to being in DKA i lost 10% and that was through severe illlness that very nearly cost me my life.

I dont understand what you are talking about here could you put it in laymans terms please.

Also Im not worried about insulin resistance at the moment Im relatively newly diagnosed and I would like to get my I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post. sorted out which will in turn have a knock on effect on any possible resistance
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  #15  
Unread 04-18-2008, 11:59 AM
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" 7.00am Green Tea and no Sugar Yoghurt
8.00am 20 mins in the pool (breast stroke at the moment but looking to get back to front crawl)
9.30 - 10.30 am Grapefruit, Slice of Gluten free bread with soy spread
13.00pm 20 mins on the cross trainer
14.00pm Squash Soup & pumpernickel bread with soya spread, Handfull of nuts
16.30.00pm Soya Yoghurt, pepermint tea, Half a flax seed bar, more nuts
19.00pm Salmon with dill sauce (home made) and steamed veggies. Fruit Salad

what is that, maybe 18 grams of protein?

you're living on tiny amounts of starch and nothing. serosly, go put that into fitday and come post what it gives you for total calories and macros. no wonder you're losing weight. you're not eating ANYTHING
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  #16  
Unread 04-18-2008, 12:02 PM
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my point about getting fatter is that, while guerly's advice is generally correct in terms of gaining muscle mass, eating above maintenance when you're already at 30% bodyfat is going to be a HUGE mistake.

you will ALWAYS gain some fat when you gain muscle. starting at 30% fat and then raising calories above maintenance is a huge mistake becauase you're going to end up even fatter than that.

steps:
1. fix your diet (e.g. get enough dietary protein)
2. get on a proper resistance training program with moderate amonts of aerobic activity
3. start witg a moderate deficit in calories, 10-20% below maintenance is a nice place

a beginner at 30% bodyfat should be able to gain muscle while losing fat and that will do more to sort out your blood glucose than just about anything else you could do
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  #17  
Unread 04-18-2008, 01:15 PM
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cun2x cun2x is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meeshathecat View Post
Firstly - How is my diet awful? Suggestions please rather than out and out critisism.

Secondly even fatter! Yeah nice, thanks for that - I wasn't allways 30 percent bodyfat if you'd read my earlier post you would see that due to being in DKA i lost 10% and that was through severe illlness that very nearly cost me my life.

I dont understand what you are talking about here could you put it in laymans terms please.

Also Im not worried about insulin resistance at the moment Im relatively newly diagnosed and I would like to get my I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post. sorted out which will in turn have a knock on effect on any possible resistance
laymans terms:
1. calculate your maintenance calories. If you are weight training, your maintenance calories should be around 14 - 16 x your bodyweight. Let's pick 15. 15 x 120 (your bw) = 1800 calories.
2. Reduce maintenance calories by around 10%. 1800 cals * 90% = 1620 cals.
3. set your protein intake, 1 g / bodyweight in lbs. so your protein intake is 120 g of protein x 4 cals/g = 480 cals.
4. Set your fat intake. about 25% of calories. 1620 cals * 25% = 450 cals. 405 cals / 9 cals/g = 45 g of fat.
5. Set your carb intake. 1620 cals - 480 - 450 = 690 cals / 4 cals/g = 173 g of carb.

There you go: 173 g of carbs, 120 g of protein and 45 g of fat. Does it make sense?

Compared to this, your current diet is:
- too low in calories
- too little protein

You need to fix that, and pick a basic weight training program.
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  #18  
Unread 05-13-2008, 03:50 PM
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yksin yksin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meeshathecat View Post
Also Im not worried about insulin resistance at the moment Im relatively newly diagnosed and I would like to get my I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post. sorted out which will in turn have a knock on effect on any possible resistance
I'm late coming into this, having just joined this forum a couple weeks ago, but hope you're still checking in case anything I say helps. Just as an intro, I'm an insulin resistant prediabetic, & I read a lot about diabetes -- mostly Type 2, granted, but I've learned quite a bit about Type 1 as well. Which doesn't by any means makes me a diabetes doctor, but --

Since you are relatively newly diagnosed, the first thing that popped into my head was the possibility of Latent autoimmune diabetes (LADA), also known as Type 1.5, which has some characteristics of both Type 1 & Type 2. I don't know much about it, just presenting as a possibility. People w/ it do tend to become insulin dependent like T1 diabetics.

The first most important thing for any diabetic regardless of type is blood sugar control. For an insulin-dependent diabetic, that means also knowing how to precisely cover exercise with carbs, & how to cover carbs with exercise & insulin. Unless you know with precision how to do that, in order to keep your blood sugars as closely as possible within normal ranges, & that you are testing with a glucometer regularly around exercise & exercise-related nutrition, you are putting yourself in grave danger. You should know exactly how much your b.g. levels will change with how much exercise, excactly how much they will rise when you take a given amount of carbohydrate, what the best types of carbs to eat are.

Another member pointed out a resource that I also highly recommend. That is the website for Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution at http://www.diabetes-book.com. Also buy the book. Bernstein is a Type 1 diabetic who learned on his own (before he became a doctor) to get his blood sugars into normal (i.e., what is normal for nondiabetics) ranges by using a glucometer & checking it against what he ate. He succeeded in reversing all his diabetic complications (except for those which had already resulted in irreperable damage) & then went to medical school to become a doctor because the medical establishment, with its high carb recommendations, woudn't listen to him unless he had credentials. Actually, they still don't like him much. The American Diabetes Association to this day recommends that diabetics regardless of type eat high carb diets, which in fact makes them sicker & sicker.

Yes, Dr. Bernstein's approach is a low-carb approach, & I understand your nervousness about that. But there are good reasons for it, one of the most important being the law of small numbers. In his chapter about it (which, like some other chapters of his book, you can read online), he writes "Big inputs make big mistakes; small inputs make small mistakes." And, "The name of the game for the diabetic in achieving blood sugar normalization is predictability. It’s very difficult to use medications safely unless you can predict the effect they’ll have. Nor can you normalize blood sugar unless you can predict the effects of what you’re eating. If you can’t accurately predict your blood sugar levels, then you can’t
accurately predict your needs for insulin or oral blood sugar–lowering agents. If the kinds of foods you’re eating give you consistently unpredictable blood sugar levels, then it will be impossible to normalize blood sugars."


That's basically what the book is about: normalizing blood sugars, which also means better health overall. High blood sugar and high blood insulin are the two problems that lead to the complications of diabetes. (Also, of course, hypoglycemia, which you as a Type 1 are probably already way too familiar with.)

A diabetic diet should be mainly low carb mainly because, by the law of small numbers, it leads to small inputs of blood glucose, which then leads to small mistakes because you need less insulin to cover it. That does not mean it's impossible to gain healthy bodyweight (i.e., lean body mass), but you need to do it in a controlled way, with tight control of your blood glucose. From his bio (which you can read online), it seems that Bernstein himself had a hard time maintaining healthy bodyweight -- until he taught himself how to control his blood sugars. Note also that his book has a discussion of exercise, & that his prime recommendation re: exercise echoes what Lyle & others have already said here: focus on weight training.

I guess what I'm saying is that it seems like you're doing things backwards -- trying to gain muscle mass in order to control blood sugars (& having a hard time doing it) instead of learning to control your blood sugars first, & then proceeding in a methodical way to gain the LBM you want (& get rid of the bodyfat).

You mentioned having had a DKA event -- diabetic ketoacidosis. This comes from two main things in combination: (1) high blood sugars at the same time as (2) low insulin. Here's how that works:

"In diabetic patients, ketoacidosis is usually accompanied by dehydration, hyperglycemia, and insulin deficiency. Since insulin is required to utilize glucose, lack of insulin means the body cannot utilize glucose and causes an energy crisis and the body goes to extremes to produce more glucose and also provide ketone bodies for energy. Glucose accumulates to the point that the kidney must use water to spill it into the urine, losing that water and causing dehydration in the process. The dehydration exacerbates the acidosis in a vicious cycle." (from "What is Ketosis/Ketoacidosis" in the FAQs at the forums at Bernstein's website)

By definition, this means that it wasn't the state of ketosis itself that caused the DKA event -- it was that you had high blood sugar & low insulin at the same time, which basically means that your blood sugars are in poor control, & underscores the need to take care of learning good, tight control first & foremost. So, what I would say is:

1. Increase how much protein you eat like everybody is saying, & increase your overall calories. (Bernstein would also say this.)

2. Get Bernstein's book & use it to start learning more about your disease & how to control your blood sugars. It will also help teach you how to use insulin & carbs appropriately around exercise.

3. Make sure you have a good doctor who understands Type 1 diabetes, & in particular understands & agrees with Bernstein's approach (i.e., that blood sugars should be as normal as possible, & that the standard American Diabetes Association high-carb diet will make you sicker, leading to complications & premature death). Even if it means changing doctors. The forums at Bernstein's website have a place for people looking for doctors in their local area. Or, if your doctor is open-minded, give him/her a copy of Bernstein's book so you can be on the same page.

4. Work with your doctor in figuring out the best ways to exercise & eat while you pursue your overall goal to have good healthy weight, while simultaneously keeping your blood sugar under control & your insulin use to a minimum. -- Because, again, high insulin levels are just as bad as high blood glucose levels as contributors to the complications of diabetes. And again, the law of small numbers.

5. Don't expect to get results instantly. Diabetes means you have to take things a little more slowly & carefully. Again: the law of small numbers. If the changes you make are too drastic, but are mistakes, the consequences can be drastic too. But there are a lot of great Type 1 athletes out there who prove that it is possible to be physically active even with all the extra stuff they have to take into consideration that nondiabetics do not. So take heart.

Meantime, it's seemed to me in everything I've read here at the Body Recomposition site & elsewhere that the info here is consistent with the most successful practices in treating diabetes, whether Type 1 & Type 2, as well as insulin resistance. Otherwise you wouldn't find me here. But because of diabetes, you need a lot of extra know-how about how blood sugars & insulin work in your body in order to bring it off successfully & healthily. So you really need that medical advice too -- just make sure it's the right kind of medical advice, not the iatrogenic ADA high carb type of advice. (Iatrogenic: doctor-caused disease.)

Hope this helps.

-- Mel

Last edited by yksin : 05-13-2008 at 03:52 PM. Reason: replace missing word
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  #19  
Unread 05-27-2008, 03:56 AM
RichardGrinder RichardGrinder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meeshathecat View Post
Low carb high protien - I've done these diets intermittently when Ive had problems with raised blood sugar,
Protein and fat also lead to an increase in blood sugar b/c they're partly metabolized to glucose in a time span of up to 8 hours (I'm not sure if the type of protein plays a role here). So your high protein diet means that you have give several injections of your meal insulin AND/OR increase the dosage of your basal insulin.

Quote:
Balanced Diet eating moderate carbs - Can't get it right - even using GI and GL as guidlines for what kind of carohydrate I should be using = Massive swings in blood sugar,
There could be several reasons for this. My first starting point would be limiting the total daily insulin dosage (meal, basal and insulin for correcting high BG values) to a fixed value. This should erase some swings.

After that I would start checking if my basal rate works properly, ie. blood glucose doesn't leave the 70 to 140 mg/dl range when fasting for up to 5 hours. If it does, one should fix the basal rate. Another reason for swings is the time span between injection of the meal insulin and the time starting to eat. If your BG value is in a normal range, one should first inject the insulin and then wait some minutes before starting to eat carbs. 1.5 hours after injection (and eating of course ) the BG value should not exceed 140 mg/dl. If it does, you should increase the time span. The time span is day time dependend, too. In the morning it will be longer b/c the insulin resistance is higher. Between 11am and 1pm resistance it will be much lower, hence the time span is shorter. Of course you should have guessed or measured the amount of carbs in your meal correctly when finding out the time span.

Lot's of stuff. Start w/ one thing at a time to change.

Quote:
when my blood sugar is high I can't go to the gym cos its dangerous
That depends on the reason why it is high. If your basal dosage is wrong, you shouldn't go to the gym. If you just got your carbs wrong, then the training will lower the BG level.

Quote:
- when my bloods are too low its dangerous also. Also everytime they go to high I go into Diabetic Ketosis (not to be confused with Dietary Ketosis)
If you don't know how to get out of this, go to a hospital.

Quote:
I also drink too much water, if my bloods are too high or I'm in ketosis that can be up to 6 litres
Your concern should not which type of diet you follow or if you go to a gym.
It should be to obtain enough knowledge on diabetes in the first place. The rest will follow. Esp. the muscle gains will be great w/ our legal doping.

If you have any question, feel free to ask.
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  #20  
Unread 05-27-2008, 09:35 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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fat is not metabolized to glucose, well not the fatty acid portion. the glycerol portion can be but the process is very limited

protein cna be converted to glucose in the liver
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