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  #21  
Unread 05-29-2008, 10:37 AM
RichardGrinder RichardGrinder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
fat is not metabolized to glucose, well not the fatty acid portion. the glycerol portion can be but the process is very limited
Would you say that out of 600 kcal fat (can) become 48 kcal of glucose?
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  #22  
Unread 05-29-2008, 11:01 AM
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maybe half of that
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  #23  
Unread 07-08-2008, 11:31 PM
Tension Tension is offline
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Does tolerance to a meal or drink accurately indicate insulin sensitivity? I had been thinking I wasn't very insulin sensitive after years on bodybuilding.com boards, but recently I've been drinking a preworkout high-carb+protein drink (changed from a PFC meal) and energy/satiety have been increased dramatically. Any correlation to nutrition and the after effects with IS or IR?
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  #24  
Unread 07-09-2008, 02:26 AM
Espi Espi is offline
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Satiety for me had a lot to do with improved carb metabolism by having more B-vitamins available, but it also ties in with IR.
Feeling energetic after a carb-rich meal can also mean improved insulin sensitivity but for me, the 2 aren't combined: I can feel satiated, yet tired/sleepy because of the shift in tryptophan balance. Granted, it's not as present as before = carbs don't always equate carb coma anymore.

BTW, I wonder if the OP is still around and how/whether she adjusted her diet? Too bad if she missed yksin's most helpful post.
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  #25  
Unread 07-09-2008, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tension View Post
Does tolerance to a meal or drink accurately indicate insulin sensitivity? I had been thinking I wasn't very insulin sensitive after years on bodybuilding.com boards, but recently I've been drinking a preworkout high-carb+protein drink (changed from a PFC meal) and energy/satiety have been increased dramatically. Any correlation to nutrition and the after effects with IS or IR?
Do you just experience this when you do workouts with your preworkout drink, or with other meals as well? Insulin sensitivity increases during exercise, even for diabetics.

-- Mel
__________________
Progress log (RFL cat. 3) Blog
5-1/4" (160 cm), 55, female, insulin resistant
Restart 17 Mar 2014: start 198.2 (89.9 kg) > current 180.8 (82.0 kg) (post-diet break) > goal 140 (63.6 kg)
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  #26  
Unread 07-09-2008, 12:47 PM
Tension Tension is offline
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Originally Posted by yksin View Post
Do you just experience this when you do workouts with your preworkout drink, or with other meals as well? Insulin sensitivity increases during exercise, even for diabetics.

-- Mel
it's weird. i have the pre-workout drink 30 minutes to an hour before working out and have no hunger and great energy for hours (even after working out). however other meals that are high-carb, and high-fat with protein, don't have the same effect. does that mean anything?
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  #27  
Unread 07-09-2008, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tension View Post
it's weird. i have the pre-workout drink 30 minutes to an hour before working out and have no hunger and great energy for hours (even after working out). however other meals that are high-carb, and high-fat with protein, don't have the same effect. does that mean anything?
I don't know in total, but it's also the case that exercise can reduce appetite, especially high-intensity exercise. So it might not be so much that you're "satiated" by your pre-workout carbs so much as your workout has just lowered your appetite.

Happens to me, too -- intense exercise or very long steady-state cardio. I've been doing some long sessions on my rower the past few days, including a half-marathon last night, & I feel more energetic after those rows than I did before them. And if I've got another meal coming, I pretty much have to force myself to eat.

I'm also insulin resistant -- preworkout fast-acting carbs don't mess my blood sugars up as long as I actually follow through with the workout, but if I eat those same carbs not around a workout, then I get a blood sugar spike. That's pretty typical for insulin resistant people. As best I understand it (& Lyle or somebody correct me if I'm wrong):
  • Insulin sensitivity is increased around exercise.
  • Blood glucose can also be taken up by cells even without insulin during intense exercise (weights & high intensity cardio both, I think), so it can provide energy to muscles without necessitating additional insulin secretion.
You're not getting those benefits around other times of the day. This is why insulin resistant people (depending on just how insulin resistant they are) are, in my opinion, well-advised to:
  • Avoid fast-acting carbs except in the immediate pre/during/post workout period.
  • Avoid starchy carbs except before to within about two hours after a workout.
  • Depend more on whole fruits (not fruit juice) for carbs outside those periods. The main sugar in fruit is fructose, which has to be processed by the liver, so it doesn't hit the blood as glucose as immediately as other sugars or starch do. And, of course, eat lots of nonstarchy & fibrous veggies.
The hunger effects you have outside the workout period in response to a high-carb meal is due mainly to blood sugar/insulin fluctuations. Basically, eating carbs makes you hungry. A lot of people on this forum, even fairly insulin sensitive people, have remarked on that -- I've noticed it a lot in threads about UD2.0 especially. If it is very noticeable (as in hunger pangs & carb cravings not long after a high-carb meal), you might want to get yourself checked out for any of the symptoms of insulin resistance & metabolic syndrome, which are risk factors for heart disease & diabetes --
  1. blood sugar
  2. total cholesterol, HDL & LDL cholesterol
  3. triglycerides
  4. blood pressure

Lyle's article (the one he links to in the original post) is a good source of info on insulin resistance & fat loss. You might also be interested in "primer" articles by John Berardi about insulin & about diabetes (Type 2 is insulin resistance to the max).

Hope this helps.

-- Mel
__________________
Progress log (RFL cat. 3) Blog
5-1/4" (160 cm), 55, female, insulin resistant
Restart 17 Mar 2014: start 198.2 (89.9 kg) > current 180.8 (82.0 kg) (post-diet break) > goal 140 (63.6 kg)

Last edited by yksin : 07-09-2008 at 02:02 PM.
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  #28  
Unread 07-10-2008, 05:58 PM
Tension Tension is offline
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thanks, that did help. would someone insulin sensitive feel tired after a high fat meal? or does it matter most on the amount of carbs in it?
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  #29  
Unread 07-10-2008, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tension View Post
thanks, that did help. would someone insulin sensitive feel tired after a high fat meal? or does it matter most on the amount of carbs in it?
I dunno about high fat making one tired. Blood sugar & insulin fluctuations after a carb meal certainly does that (think of the post-lunch sleepies so many of us experience), but fat is pretty neutral with regards to that -- doesn't provoke an insulin response. (Protein causes insulin response, but not to as great a degree generally as carbs.)

-- Mel
__________________
Progress log (RFL cat. 3) Blog
5-1/4" (160 cm), 55, female, insulin resistant
Restart 17 Mar 2014: start 198.2 (89.9 kg) > current 180.8 (82.0 kg) (post-diet break) > goal 140 (63.6 kg)
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  #30  
Unread 08-17-2008, 12:42 AM
PeyZS PeyZS is offline
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Quote:
"While the research is in its infancy, there have been studies examining the weight loss response relative to either insulin sensitivity or insulin secretion. For the most part, no major difference in terms of weight loss has been found in subjects with different insulin sensitivities (2). However, at least one study found that the specific diet given interacted with baseline insulin sensitivity to determine the magnitude of weight loss (3). In that study, obese women with either high or low insulin sensitivity were placed on either a high carb (60% carb, 20% fat) or low carb (40% carb, 40% fat) diets. So there were four groups: high carb/insulin sensitive, high carb/insulin resistant, low carb/insulin sensitive, low carb/insulin resistant. The results were intriguing: insulin sensitive women on the high carb diet lost nearly double the weight as insulin sensitive women on the low-carb diet. Similarly, insulin resistant women lost twice the weight on the low-carb diet as on the high carb diet. Unfortunately, itís not clear what caused the divergent results. The researchers mentioned a gene called FOXC2 which is involved in energy expenditure and found that it was upregulated in the individuals who responded best to diet; further research into this topic is needed (3)."

Lyle, in these studies, I assume caloric intake was tightly controlled?

Tension and others: This is probably psychological, but at times putting carbs in my pre workout shake make me feel like turd at the gym. Post workout they do quite the opposite. Even while eating at maintenance and relatively freely I have intuitively fallen into TKD style food intake. Unless I'm on a cyclical diet of sorts, high carb breakfast will usually make me want to crawl back into bed. High fat high protein, I'm charged like superman in the yellow sun.

Again this may be mental, as I've come to think of carbs, especially sweet stuff (even Twin Lab ultra fuel) as 'reward' for lifting hard and heavy. Then again, it could be genuine insulin over secretion/resistance that becomes attenuated by the lifting (hence no PWO issues with carb intake).
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