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  #11  
Unread 04-05-2009, 12:47 PM
Sugar Sugar is offline
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Bill Starr 5x5

Linear Version for Intermediate Lifters


Exercise Sets x Reps Details

Monday
Squat 5x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Bench 5x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Barbell Row 5x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Assistance: 2 sets of weighted hypers and 4 sets of weighted sit-ups



Wednesday
Squat 4x5 First 3 sets are the same as Monday, the 4th set is repeating the 3rd set again
Incline or Military 4x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5
Deadlift 4x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5
Assistance: 3 sets of sit-ups



Friday
Squat 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Bench 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Barbell Row 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Assistance: 3 sets of weighted dips (5-8 reps), 3 sets of barbell curls and 3 sets of triceps extensions (8 reps)

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...Linear_5x5.htm

Lyle, which is the objetive of the sets of 8 reps performed on Friday in the 5x5 intermediate version?. Why they aren't included in the advanced one?.
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  #12  
Unread 04-06-2009, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingar View Post
would have appreciated if the article included examples of more advanced implementations, such as the texas method. if it makes the article too long, a follow-up would have been a great idea.
That's dealing with long-term programming which was NOT the real goal of the article. I couldn't do it any more justice than Rip's book anyhow.
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  #13  
Unread 04-06-2009, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar View Post

Lyle, which is the objetive of the sets of 8 reps performed on Friday in the 5x5 intermediate version?. Why they aren't included in the advanced one?.
Backdown set to keep the total tonnage up (when reps drop down, total volume/tonnage often drops too much).

Ask bill starr why he programmed his advanced version the way he did.
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  #14  
Unread 04-21-2009, 10:53 AM
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Dr. Stalingrad Dr. Stalingrad is offline
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(1)btw 5x5 should be dated to reg Park, I think. He even wrote a booklet about 5x5. His stuff is more BB-fashioned.

(2)I think there are not-covered interesting extentions to 5x5 worse to mention. Here I mean Wendler's 5/3/1. Done without multirep stuff (only core) it is ideologically 5x5 with an attempt to prolong the cycle of linear programming. I've encountered similar ideas in one Bill Starr's article on weight and load progression (sorry - it was in Russian translation - if you can read Russian, I can link it to you).

(3)As for Madcow's advanced cycle, I think the idea to hit max weights on the 4th week of "Load" cycle is completely wrong (ramped-up training session). The idea of accumulating the fatigue to the cycle's end is somewhere in contrary with being close to repmax.

I've adjusted the cycle for me doing no ramp-ups at all, but doing 5x5 and 5x3 with set weight instead. I worked for 3 consequent Load cycles and it gave me: BP from 130Kg x5 to 150Kg x3, SQ from 160Kg x5 to 185Kg x3 (DL was not the focus, but was 212,5Kg x3 at the end of the cycle).
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  #15  
Unread 04-21-2009, 12:55 PM
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1. As I noted in the article, I'm quite sure others had done it before him, Starr did the most IMO to popularize the system.

2. I don't see Wendler's 5/3/1 being related to 5X5 in any real fashion.

3. Not sure what you're saying here.
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  #16  
Unread 04-22-2009, 03:20 AM
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I'll try to reproduce the old Starr's article on progression for 5x5, just main points / stages. Each consequent stage is introduced when the progress (possibility to add weight) stops.
(1) everything begins with 5x5 ramping up, trying to add weight every workout. After some time progress stalls.
(2) introduce heavy-light-medium concept. It lowers the weekload, but milks the progress and give the possibility to add weight.
(3) consolidate 3 main (heavy) sets, making the difference in BB weight for these sets smaller.
(4) add back-off set of 8-10 on heavy and medium days
(5) for light days, do 3 main (heavy) sets with the same weight, e.g. 2x5 ramping up, 3x5 across.

Then fun begins.

(6) For squat:
(a) do on medium day 3x3 instead of 3x5, e.g. 2x5 + 3x3 (I think that inreallity it will be 4x3 since you will neeed an additional set to go a bit higher in weights)
(b) do front squats (substitute for back squats) on light day.

For BP:

(a) substitute incline press for BP on light day
(b) do 4x8 +2x2 on medium day (2x2 with not maximal weight, just to load the tendons a bit).
(c) on heavy day do one week 5x5, another week 2x5+3x3

Back-off sets are done on heavy and medium days.

(7) add singles on the heavy day for the trird week of benches. No comments on squats.

(8) next stage would be adding accessory stuff for weak points which will come up due to singles. No details.

Not mentioning that the stuff itself is rather interesting (and far more deep than given in SSS book), I think that the way the press is trained on the last stages is much similar to 5/3/1.
That was what I've meant.
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  #17  
Unread 04-22-2009, 05:38 AM
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To Madcow 5x5 advanced. Since the intermediate version of Madcow 5x5 was posted by Sugar a couple of posts earlier, I supposed that the advanced version is also good known. You can find it here
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...odized_5x5.htm

Scroll down to see xls template also.

To be short, the idea is to divide the program (fitness-fatigue concept) into Load and Intensification parts, each one lasts 4 weeks with a deload week inbetween. You do squats, benches and rows on Mondays and Fridays, and doing DLs, lighter squats and inclines on Wednesday. During Load stage you do one day 5x5 across, one day 5x5 ramping up (lighter day on Wednesday). You add the weight every week, and should hit your previous 5x5 and 5RM maxes on the third Load week, trying to beat them on the forth week for 5% (see xls).
Then you deload for a week and begin with intensification, which means doing 3x3 across and 3x3 ramping up (no lighter squats on Wednesdays). You should hit previous 3x3 max and 3RM on the third week and add 5% on the forth one.

My experience with this program tells me, that an attempt to hit and to overcome 5RM during Load phase is a bad idea. You will be to tired for it.
Also bad would be trying to overcome 3RM and 3x3 max in a row of consequent weekly attempts. Doing 3RM on the 3d week and 3RM+5% on the 4th? Hardly...

So my adjustments were:

(1) do 5x3 across instead 5x5 ramping up. Create load with bigger weights then on 5x5 day, do not attempt to set a record.
(2) Do not add weight on 3x3 across day during intensification phase. Keep it constant and low, appr you 5x5 record weight.
(3) Make 2 peaks during intensification phase instead of one. On the second intensity week hit 3RM, on the forth or fifth try 3RM + XX%. Low weight on the inbetween-week(s).

What was also added is wave loading during load phases. Since I was going through 3 consequent load phases (one deload week inbetween), the first load phase was with adding weight every week (low-medium-miedium high-high), then they were waved (medium-medium high-low-high). Each subsequent medium high weights were the highs from the previous phase.

That's it...
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  #18  
Unread 04-22-2009, 07:55 AM
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Some Texas Method info.

I happen to agree with BWTrainer. Look yourself, find what works for YOU. Having your hand out to Lyle all the time isn't going to get a person very far with their training. "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach him to fish, feed him for a lifetime."

I cross referenced what I read in Practical Programming, Wiki and some discussions I had on another board. Here is what I came up with.

Quote:
Here's the templates, so you can customize it to your liking.

This is what I came up with for myself. I only had a month to iron it out, but I think it jives nicely!

The Texas Method:

Day 1 of 3: Homeostasis Disruption

Example: Monday
(AQS's format = always [sets]x[reps])

- 5x5 Back Squat (3x5 okay if recovery problems ensue from 5x5)
- 5x5 Bench Press (alternate w/ OHP, so next week's Monday is 5x5 OHP for here)
- 8x3 Power Clean(or BB Pendlay Row 3x8)[FOR POWER CLEAN ---> 8x3 PC only to match optional 5x5 Squat volume, 5x3 PC to match optional 3x5 squat volume]
OPTIONAL Accesory: Gunsmithing/Bi's

Day 2 of 3: CNS Maintenance
Example: Wednesday

-3x3 Front Squat or 2x5 Back Squat(80% of 5RM)
-3x3 OHP (alternate with Bench Press, so next week's Weds is 3x3 Bench Press for here)
-5x10 Glute Ham Raise
-3x12 Chin Ups/Pull Ups(I do 3x5, since I suck)


Day 3 of 3: Strength Test
Example: Friday

-1x5 Back Squat
-1x1 Bench Press (Week #3= 1x2/Week #5 = 1x3 Week #7 = Repeat Cycle[back to 1x1])[alternate with OHP, so next Friday is 1x1 OHP for here. Also, follow same 1x1/1x2/1x3 cycle]
-1x5 Deadlift
OPTIONAL Accessory: Gunsmithing/Tri's

There are templates on wiki, just follow the link. My programming is pretty much like template #2, but slightly modified.

The only thing I would probably do differently the next time around, is more volume on 3x3 OHP days. I seem to progress much better with more volume there.

I did the GHR's in the smith machine, by unracking the bar .... setting it on the stops way down as far as it would go, loaded four 25's on each side to stabilize, knee pad ... bam. Worked perfectly.

Oh, "gunsmithing" is slang for arm iso's ... I put that in there because my "pipe cleaners" need some growth.
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Last edited by AlienQuiksilver : 04-22-2009 at 07:58 AM.
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  #19  
Unread 04-27-2009, 04:50 AM
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Hi Lyle,

you've mentioned in you article that Bill Starr's 5x5 is based on some paper. Could you please give a link or paste it here?
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  #20  
Unread 04-27-2009, 08:34 AM
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It's reviewed in this paper but was done earlier than that. I don't have the original reference handy

****

Exerc Sport Sci Rev. 1981;9:1-73.Links
Strengthening muscle.

Atha J.
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