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  #11  
Unread 04-17-2014, 04:37 PM
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yksin yksin is offline
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Seconding or thirding or five-hundreding or two-thousand-fifty-seconding your recommendation of Alan Aragon's Research Review, where I first read this article a couple weeks ago.

Some are gonna take offense but I think it's just honest to say that the freakout about "metabolic damage" is a result of neuroticism from (mostly) crazed female dieters. (I like to think that, while I am a female dieter, I'm not of the crazed neurotic type.) I'm wondering what kind of crazed neuroticism is most often found among male dieters.

Paleo-Taubism?

— Mel
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Last edited by yksin : 04-17-2014 at 04:37 PM. Reason: always with the typos
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  #12  
Unread 04-17-2014, 05:44 PM
loc loc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primalkid View Post
They were starved. They lost fat AND muscle. They were skeletons. No one would want to stay at 4% under those circumstances, and not even bodybuilders would want to stay that lean. It is not healthy nor maintainable.
Sorry you didn't catch the sarcasm in my comment. Should have put a "lol" or "haha" on it.
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  #13  
Unread 04-17-2014, 09:09 PM
Primalkid Primalkid is offline
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Quote:
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Sorry you didn't catch the sarcasm in my comment. Should have put a "lol" or "haha" on it.
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  #14  
Unread 04-17-2014, 09:33 PM
loc loc is offline
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Love the meme. Need to start putting that on the end of my sarcastic posts.

Anyway, back to the question I asked earlier, do you know if the permanent adaptive effect varies based on how quickly the weight is lost, or how large the deficit is?
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  #15  
Unread 04-17-2014, 10:05 PM
Primalkid Primalkid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loc View Post
Love the meme. Need to start putting that on the end of my sarcastic posts.

Anyway, back to the question I asked earlier, do you know if the permanent adaptive effect varies based on how quickly the weight is lost, or how large the deficit is?
I would say that it is the dieting amount that matters. If you crash diet for a short time you will see slow-down. But even if you slowly diet over a long time (like bodybuilders doing context prep... and actually giving themselves enough time lol) then at the end of it all you still suffer. I'm sure Lyle could explain better.
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  #16  
Unread 04-17-2014, 10:38 PM
loc loc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primalkid View Post
I would say that it is the dieting amount that matters. If you crash diet for a short time you will see slow-down. But even if you slowly diet over a long time (like bodybuilders doing context prep... and actually giving themselves enough time lol) then at the end of it all you still suffer. I'm sure Lyle could explain better.
Thanks for the input. That's about what I was thinking. Just wasn't sure if perhaps with a more conservative approach some of the longer term consequences could be avoided, or at least lessened, vs a crash diet.
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  #17  
Unread 04-18-2014, 07:42 AM
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NOAMattD NOAMattD is offline
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Great article, as I was reading it felt like a systematic shooting down of a whole bunch of forum questions each with a slight permutation asking about metabolic damage.

Forums:
But what about THIS way?
How about that situation AND if I-
Suppose I had done all this and then THIS on top of it.

Lyle:
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  #18  
Unread 04-18-2014, 08:10 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primalkid View Post
I would say that it is the dieting amount that matters. If you crash diet for a short time you will see slow-down. But even if you slowly diet over a long time (like bodybuilders doing context prep... and actually giving themselves enough time lol) then at the end of it all you still suffer. I'm sure Lyle could explain better.
No that pretty much covers it. It would be lovely to be able to diet down in such a way to prevent all of the metabolic adaptation but it's not going to happen. Yes, you may see a bigger short-term drop with a more extreme diet but you also get faster fat loss.

By the time you get to 4-5%, no matter how you get there you'll have lost the bodyweight (recall that 25% of the big drop is just related to that) and hormones will be crashed.
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  #19  
Unread 04-18-2014, 08:28 AM
loc loc is offline
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Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
No that pretty much covers it. It would be lovely to be able to diet down in such a way to prevent all of the metabolic adaptation but it's not going to happen. Yes, you may see a bigger short-term drop with a more extreme diet but you also get faster fat loss.

By the time you get to 4-5%, no matter how you get there you'll have lost the bodyweight (recall that 25% of the big drop is just related to that) and hormones will be crashed.
Cool, thanks. Guess I won't feel as bad now when I'm like, screw it, I'm sick of this dieting, I'm getting this done in as fast as possible by eating as little as possible, not that there aren't other issues with that
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  #20  
Unread 05-17-2014, 08:14 PM
Average Dude Average Dude is offline
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I got a decrease of test on a diet of three months and postural hypotension.
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