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  #21  
Unread 07-27-2009, 06:03 AM
Heavy_Lifter85 Heavy_Lifter85 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weib View Post
As for the intervals - how do you progress?
Via time based or distance based or both?
5 different variables:

Rest between intervals
Length of the interval (distance to be covered)
Length of the interval (duration)
Number of intervals
Type of acivity during the rest period (walking, slow cycling, nothing, etc)

Last edited by Heavy_Lifter85 : 07-27-2009 at 09:27 AM.
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  #22  
Unread 07-27-2009, 07:16 AM
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Looking at the research it seems that, if you had to pick only one training method, it should be tabata because it improves both aerobic and anaerobic capacity, though the effect stops at 3 weeks.

One question I have is if interval training is comparable to Tabata, because 170% VO2 and 500 wt of power seems much more than what you do with typical
30-60'' hard, 30-60'' slow. Comparable in terms of effectiveness and the 3 week period.
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  #23  
Unread 07-27-2009, 08:40 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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You need to read more research and the review again. Tabata improved two very specific aspects of performance but power is not capacity and capacity is not power. And 60"/60off will simply do different things tahn Tabata or steady state. Thinking that there is any single loading combination that can do all things is where people go wrong: it can't.
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  #24  
Unread 07-27-2009, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weib View Post
As for the intervals - how do you progress?
Via time based or distance based or both?
Depends on what they are trying to accomplish.
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  #25  
Unread 07-27-2009, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faz View Post
insread of doing blocks of intervals/ss wouldnt it be better to just do 1 day a wk on interval and the rest at steady state.
Depends on the philosophy of the coach. Lydiard did it this way

6-7 months base
3 weeks hills
1 week easy
3 weeks speed work
taper
compete

Peter Coe did it more concurrently year round with different speed runs every week.

Daniels does it closer to what you're describing.
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  #26  
Unread 07-27-2009, 08:58 AM
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Running is also different than other sports in that quality work pounds the joints and the body. A cyclist can do intervals 3X/week, a swimmer can do it daily, a rower can do it a lot. Runners who try to run too much quality work have their knees explode.
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  #27  
Unread 07-27-2009, 11:29 AM
Weib Weib is offline
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that sucks to be a runner...
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  #28  
Unread 07-27-2009, 12:12 PM
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Professor <To Val Kilmer>: Do you still run?
Val Kilmer: Only when chased.
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  #29  
Unread 07-27-2009, 03:35 PM
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LBSS LBSS is offline
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Default aerobic base?

So am I to believe that everything I've read on teh interwebz about specific adaptation to imposed demand is bunk? A bunch of the almighty internet coaches talk about how aerobic training is non-transferable. So rowing a bunch won't improve your distance running ability, it'll just make you good at rowing. Similarly, jogging a bunch, i.e. running at low intensity, will not transfer well if at all to a sprinting sport like soccer or rugby or ultimate frisbee. In order to get better at that, you have to imitate game conditions. To this way of thinking, jogging just makes you slow.

This makes some intuitive sense but it contradicts what you say about fighters, 400m and 800m runners. So I ask you: Does the "non-transferable" idea have legs? No pun intended (honest).

How would you train aerobic capacity for an intermittent-sprint athlete? I'm especially curious about the off-season. Obviously, in-season training has to be cut back across the board because there's practice all the time.
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  #30  
Unread 07-27-2009, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBSS View Post
So am I to believe that everything I've read on teh interwebz about specific adaptation to imposed demand is bunk? A bunch of the almighty internet coaches talk about how aerobic training is non-transferable.
That's because they are writing to sell product, not to help people. and most of them have no clue what they are actually talking about.

Quote:
So rowing a bunch won't improve your distance running ability, it'll just make you good at rowing. Similarly, jogging a bunch, i.e. running at low intensity, will not transfer well if at all to a sprinting sport like soccer or rugby or ultimate frisbee.
Perhaps not directly. But it can help in some fashion b/c there is an aerobic component to those sports (what happens when you aren't sprinting), what's the pahtway that provides recovery of ATP? The answer...the aerobic engine.

So even if you are doing intermittent sprinting, you need an aeorbic engine to recover between sprints. And the guy with more aerobic development will recover more quickly.

Quote:
In order to get better at that, you have to imitate game conditions. To this way of thinking, jogging just makes you slow.
If ALL you did was slow jogging, that would be true. What intermittent sprint athlete would train like that? And that's part of the problem: many play this game of exclude the middle. Either you train for a marathon or do nothing but sprints. Training isn't an either/or. You can in fact do a combination of training. Quite in fact, that's what most athletes do.

The internet brain trust has no clue what athletes actually do, even those that claim to 'have trained top level athletes'.

Quote:
This makes some intuitive sense but it contradicts what you say about fighters, 400m and 800m runners. So I ask you: Does the "non-transferable" idea have legs? No pun intended (honest).
Depends on the specifics. Go look up the training of 400/800m unners. And not the BS that the itnernet gurus claim, go find real training. 400m guys do a fair bit of aerobic work and 800m guys nearly half of their training. But here's the thing: that's not ALL they do. They do it along with speed and sprint work. So the typical nonsensical (if all yo udo is run slow, you'll be slow) arguments are just that...nonsensical.

There are both general and specific adaptations to all types of training. So the general adaptations to rowing (increased stroke volume, etc) will transfer. Which is why cross training works. Rowers often get bored with hours in teh boat so they run, cycle, cross country ski. It builds general aerobic fitness that they harness into rowing with actual rowing training.

But to become a beter runner, you have to run for both neurological an muscular reasons. Which is why Lance was only a decent marathon runner (but still better than most). Cycling had given him amazing general endurance but he didn't have the decades of running to be neurologically efficient. He was good but not great.

Quote:
How would you train aerobic capacity for an intermittent-sprint athlete? I'm especially curious about the off-season. Obviously, in-season training has to be cut back across the board because there's practice all the time.
In season is where you will be doing more game specific stuff, both in practice and for conditioning. Off season, a combination of steady state work and perhaps sprinter style extensive tempo would be the way to go IMO. Along with some specific sprint work. Noting that I'm not a soccer/foosball kind of guy in terms of my background.

Lyle
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