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  #21  
Unread 01-23-2010, 10:53 PM
uagmata uagmata is offline
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Default Copyediting oversight

3rd paragraph in the article:

Redundant statement

"Even so, there is still some confusion regarding fiber out in the world of nutrition regarding fiber. And boring or not..."
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  #22  
Unread 10-16-2013, 10:29 AM
papagunz papagunz is offline
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Necromancy time.

Perhaps there's a possible yang to this yin?
Quote:
Id mention again that the effect of fiber on fat cell metabolism via the conversion to short-chain fatty acids is perplexing, one way of looking at this is that high-fiber intakes might hurt with fat loss. [...] At the same time, real-world results call the real-world significance of this into question. High-fiber intakes have been part of hardcore diets for decades and folks seem to be doing alright.
I stumbled upon this paper on fiber/insulin sensitivity: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22745235

Despite it being a tiny group with a wide age range, sedentary lifestyle and insulin resistance, an adipose tissue biopsy in response to resistant starch supplementation resulted in (statistically significant) increases in HSL, ATGL and perilipin transcripts. Whether or not this translates (har har) into significance, who knows, but it seemed interesting - maybe fiber can improve fat mobilization efficacy in the post absorptive state to offset the lipolytic blunting of short chain fatty acids?

All of the above is strictly nerdy navel gazing. I want to make it clear that I'm not extrapolating end points - merely commenting.
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  #23  
Unread 10-16-2013, 12:06 PM
papagunz papagunz is offline
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One more thing to make clear about my comment.

Quote:
I’d mention again that the effect of fiber on fat cell metabolism via the conversion to short-chain fatty acids is perplexing, one way of looking at this is that high-fiber intakes might hurt with fat loss. [...] At the same time, real-world results call the real-world significance of this into question. High-fiber intakes have been part of hardcore diets for decades and folks seem to be doing alright.
I think this has more to do with satiety of fiber increasing long term dietary compliance than my molecular mechanistic navel gazing.
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  #24  
Unread 09-24-2014, 04:37 AM
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elpaisita elpaisita is offline
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I have these Mission brand mini/fajita size tortillas that, if the printed nutrition facts are to be believed, contain "13g total carb, 10g fiber". During the UD2 low carb phase, I'll usually eat a couple of these, sometimes a few, with meat dishes.

I read the article, but I still don't have a clean answer: How should I count these toward carb limits for UD2?
Don't count the fiber? (3 grams each)
Do count it? (13 grams each)
Count it times 0.6, since fiber has about 60% of the calories of normal carbs? (9 grams each)

[edit] Is the answer different depending on soluble/insoluble? (I can't identify the actual fiber component in the ingredients, so I can't say for sure which it is.)

These are huge differences, especially if I eat a few of these things. So, not nitpicking.

--

By the way, I'm a bit skeptical of the numbers. Quest bars have similar numbers, but they're made largely of iso-malto-oligo-saccharides so that makes sense.
The #1 ingredient of these, though, is whole wheat flour. Not sure how we get 10/13ths fiber from there... but let's just say it's true for the sake of the question.

Thanks.
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  #25  
Unread 09-24-2014, 06:24 AM
Bacfa Bacfa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elpaisita View Post
I have these Mission brand mini/fajita size tortillas that, if the printed nutrition facts are to be believed, contain "13g total carb, 10g fiber". During the UD2 low carb phase, I'll usually eat a couple of these, sometimes a few, with meat dishes.

I read the article, but I still don't have a clean answer: How should I count these toward carb limits for UD2?
Don't count the fiber? (3 grams each)
Do count it? (13 grams each)
Count it times 0.6, since fiber has about 60% of the calories of normal carbs? (9 grams each)

[edit] Is the answer different depending on soluble/insoluble? (I can't identify the actual fiber component in the ingredients, so I can't say for sure which it is.)

These are huge differences, especially if I eat a few of these things. So, not nitpicking.

--

By the way, I'm a bit skeptical of the numbers. Quest bars have similar numbers, but they're made largely of iso-malto-oligo-saccharides so that makes sense.
The #1 ingredient of these, though, is whole wheat flour. Not sure how we get 10/13ths fiber from there... but let's just say it's true for the sake of the question.

Thanks.
A very well phrased question that bothers me too. I eat TONS of vegetables and brans and I always make questimates and compromises deciding whether or not to count the fiber calories. I usually take the middle route and count 50% on high fiber days.
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  #26  
Unread 09-24-2014, 08:23 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is online now
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http://www.lylemcdonald.com/forums/s...ad.php?p=16642

Search, brothas!
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  #27  
Unread 09-24-2014, 11:32 AM
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elpaisita elpaisita is offline
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Peter, thanks, I saw that thread, but the discussion there is just about calorie counting.

The issue of carb counting, for UD2/CKD purposes, is left unaddressed.
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  #28  
Unread 09-24-2014, 12:46 PM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is online now
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I'm pretty certain that fibre, whether soluble or insoluble, does not really convert to glucose and certainly not in any appreciable amount. In fact I seem to remember something about soluble fibre being broken down by bacteria into fatty acids.

You can try to count soluble fibre as ENERGY if you can be bothered. This is of course problematic for a number of reasons, one of which is that you are not told on the food label which proportion of the fibre is digestible (soluble) and which is not.

For the carb-up, focus on the carbs that do go to glucose.

Last edited by BigPecsPeter : 09-24-2014 at 01:39 PM.
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  #29  
Unread 09-24-2014, 01:56 PM
Bacfa Bacfa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPecsPeter View Post
I'm pretty certain that fibre, whether soluble or insoluble, does not really convert to glucose and certainly not in any appreciable amount. In fact I seem to remember something about soluble fibre being broken down by bacteria into fatty acids.

You can try to count soluble fibre as ENERGY if you can be bothered. This is of course problematic for a number of reasons, one of which is that you are not told on the food label which proportion of the fibre is digestible (soluble) and which is not.

For the carb-up, focus on the carbs that do go to glucose.
I've seen the 2008 thread earlier too, but this is new. Thanks a lot Pete. I always figured it turned to glucose.
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  #30  
Unread 09-24-2014, 05:29 PM
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elpaisita elpaisita is offline
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Thanks, Peter.
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