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  #141  
Unread 06-20-2011, 02:32 PM
djc djc is offline
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I suppose it shouldn't be a surprise that after years and years of developing good habits, that you wouldn't have to overthink or work up a spreadsheet for basic nutrition. When you have decades of bad habits, like I do, you tend to second guess everything (as illustrated by a lot of newbie questions that go up by newbie posters), because you are used to your usual instincts being wrong.
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  #142  
Unread 06-20-2011, 05:31 PM
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One more thing. For the weeks you did the 2-3 hour Sunday group ride, do you it fasted in the morning to improve fat burning, or do you do top off carb stores beforehand? I see you don't take any carbs during since you are fat adapted, but I didn't know what folks are doing these days for pre-WO on long slow distance training.
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  #143  
Unread 06-20-2011, 05:58 PM
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I did it fasted. Like I said, the overall intensity was pretty low even if it had some hard bits. And for 2 or so hours at 135 HR average, it's just not that big a deal.
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  #144  
Unread 08-02-2011, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Article part 1
A speed based runner may do more endurance work; an endurance based runner does proportionally more speed work.
Surely this was meant to be the other way around?
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  #145  
Unread 08-02-2011, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cxw View Post
Surely this was meant to be the other way around?
Just misphrased. A runner who has good speed will do more endurance work moving from the 200 or 400 to the 400 or 800 (i.e. they already have the speed, they have to build the endurance). A runner who already has endurance will do more speed work moving down. Or whatever I was talking about. Just a matter of improving your weak point.
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  #146  
Unread 08-15-2011, 10:21 AM
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I've re-read the Methods of Endurance Training Series and I had a question that I don't think was covered. I apologize if I am mistaken.

It's mentioned in part 1 that the reason behind endurance athletes train at different training zones/intensity to generate/maximize different sets of adaptations.

Using the chart in, Summing Up Part 1, how many weeks of training at a certain intensity (utilizing the loading parameters listed) would it take to generate/maximize that set of adaptations?

As per your research review on, Effects of Moderate-Intensity Endurance and High-Intensity Intermittent Training on Anaerobic Capacity and VO2 Max, I understand that it would take 3 weeks of HIIT/Tabatas to maximize VO2 max, and 4 weeks to maximize anaerobic capacity. Please correct me if I am wrong. How exactly does that fit in with the other methods in the chart since the loading parameters are different? Which would be more effective in targeting and maximizing VO2 max and anaerobic capacity adaptations?

Last edited by APreda : 08-15-2011 at 10:28 AM.
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  #147  
Unread 08-15-2011, 10:32 AM
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I don't understand what you mean by 'the loading parameters are different' in your question.

Generally speaking, aerobic type adaptations are ongoing and long-term. If you have the patience, you can develop them for years (some feel that all adaptations may take years and years to fully develop explaining why many endurance athletes don't truly hit their peak until a decade in).

VO2 max tops out pretty quickliy. The interval studies show no more benefit to 6 weeks than 3 weeks of training. At the very least, you get massively diminishing returns.

Anaerobic stuff is a bit more complex than I made it. Most studies suggest that certain adaptations are very fast, things like acidotic buffering, those types of things. Few weeks or workouts. But there may be other long-term adaptations, one swim coach argues that anaerobic power can adapt but it takes years of work. And there is also the issue that speed, pacing, stuff like that is also technically anaerobic but the adaptations are more than just muscular. Coordinative, stuff like that.

Most modern systems probably show more of a mix of training styles than the old Lydiard style. Look up some of the multi-tier stuff of Coe or the Brits or what the Kenyans are doing. IT's still an enormous amount of work on purely aerobic training (80% of totla volume) but with the other stuff done more or less year round.
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  #148  
Unread 08-15-2011, 11:11 AM
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I mean that the Tabata protocol doesn't fit in with the loading parameters that you listed

Aerobic Capacity (VO2 max Intervals) 3-6X3′/3′ rest 1-2 days/week VO2 max High
Anaerobic Capacity 8-12X60-90 seconds/60-90 rest 1-2 days/week Max Owww

Tabatas would be something like

HIIT 7-8x20 seconds/10 second rest 4 days/week 170% of V02 max Owww

I'm not sure which method is more effective at targeting VO2 max and anaerobic capactiy, the parameters you listed or the HIIT? and how long would it take to reach "diminishing returns" under the parameters you have listed?

So aerobic adaptations could always be improved upon, got it. How long would it take to begin to see it work? How many weeks of training before you would start to see the adaptations?

Very good points, I didn't think of that. By any chance could you provide the source to the swim coach's argument regarding anaerobic power? I'd love to see that.

Could you provide some links describing the more modern systems you mentioned?
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  #149  
Unread 08-15-2011, 11:28 AM
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Somewhere in the series I made the explicit point that there are often multiple ways of achieving the same physiological end result. I'm fairly sure I even listed the loading parameters as 'common parameters' where common is not synonymous with 'only'.

Because you can achieve/hit Vo2 max in multiple ways.

You can do 1' at VO2 with short rest (30") and you'll hit true VO2 max by the end of the set. Or you can grind 5' at VO2 max with 2-2.5' rest.. Tabata does it with short, excruciatingly high intensity bouts with VERY short rests. So it not only hits anaerobic pathways but you hit VO2 max BY THE END OF THE SET due to the short rests. And keep in mind what it was developed for (speed skating) and how it was done (on the bike). In technical sports, you fall apart at that level of intensity usually.

And the average loading parameter is something like 3-6X3' with 3' rest. Do we need to have another discussion of what the word 'average' means?

And the same holds for other aspects of this. You can train something like LT/MLSS with straight threshold intervals (i.e. 20' at LT) or cruise intervals (4X5' at LT/1' rest). And everything else too.

Asking 'which is 'best' is missing the point entirely.
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