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  #21  
Unread 02-17-2010, 12:54 PM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overkill View Post
It definitely seems like the cryolipolysis guys are playing with fire. It will be interesting to see how this stuff escalates (or doesn't) in the near future.
Any well-trained plastic surgeon type using this will know to only do it on small amounts of fat at a time. But eventually someone without competency or ethics will try ot remove a lot of fat from someone all at once and end up killing them.
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  #22  
Unread 09-30-2010, 09:05 PM
jacegil jacegil is offline
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I'm a little late to chime in, but watching the vid about the procedure, two thoughts come to mind: 1-if it were done on a sizable amount of fat on a very small area, would that perhaps cause an issue with skin elasticity (i.e. loose skin) 2- quoting George Clooney's wise and facetious comment on weightloss and diet or something "Why don't you try eating less?" The guy in the video would benefit immeasurably more by actually getting Lyle' s books and reading his articles, just sayin'.Also I'd be interested to know how many fat cells there are typically/on average in one pound of fat, or perhaps adipocytes can grow so large that the same amount of fat can contain vastly different cell counts from one another.
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  #23  
Unread 10-01-2010, 03:27 PM
easyrhino easyrhino is offline
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wall street journal had an article recently that mentioned zeltiq and something else.

oh hell here it is:

Fat cells, watch out.

Two new devices—one that deflates fat cells, one that destroys them—have just been cleared for "body contouring" in doctors' offices by the Food and Drug Administration.

The FDA has approved two new devices that will literally freeze and empty fat cells to reveal a thinner you with no incisions or needles.
.Zeltiq grabs onto love handles and belly pouches and freezes the fat cells inside, causing them to self-destruct over several months. Zerona is a low-level laser that rotates around the waist, hips and thighs, forcing the fat cells to empty in a matter of weeks. In both cases, there are no incisions, no downtime and no need for anesthesia. The fat is reabsorbed by the body.

Several other devices that claim to painlessly blast away fat with ultrasound, radio waves or lasers are already on the market or hoping for FDA approval soon. These high-tech weapons in the battle of the bulge are less invasive than liposuction—which involves loosening fat internally and vacuuming it out with a tube, a procedure that nearly 200,000 Americans had last year.

Of course, there is still no magic wand for the 66% of us who are overweight or obese: Eliminating fat cells without also eating less or exercising more may make fat crop up elsewhere and ultimately do more harm than good.

That's because fat cells are not just passive storage depots for surplus calories. They are busy chemical factories that send signals all over the body, helping to regulate growth, puberty, healing, disease-fighting and aging. Among the 100 or more hormones that fat cells secrete are adiponectine, which helps manage metabolism, and leptin, which tells the brain to eat more or less (although the brain doesn't always listen).

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How Fat-Blasting Devices Work

.Much about fat cells remains mysterious. They're among the largest and longest-living cells in the body, capable of expanding at least 64 times their original size (the upper limit is unknown). A lean adult has about 40 billion fat cells; an obese adult can have 120 billion.


Erchonia Medical

Zerona laser
.Journal Community
..In general, it's healthier to have a larger number of small fat cells than fewer, fatter ones. Subcutaneous fat cells, under the skin in places like the hips, thighs and lower belly, may be unsightly, but they are relatively benign.

Their principal work is to pull excess fat out of the bloodstream, package it and store it in big droplets—one per fat cell—until the body needs it for energy.

Healthy fat cells are precisely attuned to the body's needs, says Michael D. Jensen, an endocrinologist at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn. "When you eat too much, the fat cells store it up, and when you miss a meal, they give it back to you."

But if fat cells aren't working properly, they don't store and release fat effectively. Harmful versions called visceral fat cells accumulate in and around organs like the heart and liver, and release fat into the bloodstream, raising the risk for heart disease, diabetes, stroke and Alzheimer's disease.

Why some fat cells stop working, and why some proliferate while others just balloon isn't understood.


Zeltiq

Zeltiq CoolSculpting
.Heredity clearly plays a role, as does taking in more calories than the body needs. But fat-cell function doesn't necessarily correlate with weight gain. Some people are able to carry 100 extra pounds and still have functioning fat cells; others run into metabolic trouble when they gain just a few pounds, according to Dr. Jensen.

Until recently, experts thought that all the body's fat cells were created by around age 20, and that they never died, just grew and shrunk as people gained or lost weight. But scientists at Sweden's Karolinska Institute recently discovered that even in lean people, about 10% of the body's fat cells die and are replaced each year.

"The fact that the number seems to remain constant over the years indicates that something is very much regulating the number of fat cells. That's what I'm interested in right now," says neuroscientist Kirsty Spalding, the lead researcher.

The amount and distribution of fat also changes naturally with age. "People tend to gain subcutaneous fat through middle age, and then it starts to diminish, first on the back of the hands, then in the lower legs and elsewhere," says James L. Kirkland, a professor of aging at the Mayo Clinic. It piles up as visceral fat instead—and eventually appears in muscle, liver and even bone marrow, where the fat is a substitute for new bones. "Losing subcutaneous fat is not good, paradoxically," Dr. Kirkland says.

Blasting Fat
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.
.That's partly why some obesity experts are wary of the new fat-blasting techniques. The devices can't target visceral fat, only subcutaneous fat, and if patients continue to consume more calories than they burn, they may hasten that process of accumulating harmful fat instead.

Some experts also worry that forcing fat out of fat cells can increase the level in the bloodstream.

"Fat is very toxic," says Dr. Jensen. "It's not something you want in large amounts floating around free. You want it inside a cell, protected."

Another danger is that losing fat cells could will lower leptin levels, signaling to the brain to eat more.

"That's one of the reasons it's so, so hard to maintain weight loss—the body is trying to defend a weight it got used to," says Mitchell Lazar, director of the Institute for Diabetes, Obesity and Metabolism at the University of Pennsylvania.

Officials at Zeltiq, of Pleasanton, Calif., and Erchonia Corp., the McKinney, Texas, company that makes Zerona, say they had to demonstrate to the FDA that triglyceride levels in the body did not rise significantly after their procedures.

"It's the equivalent of eating three to five french fries per day," says Mitchell Levinson, Zeltiq's founder and chief scientific officer.

They also say the process is gradual and involves a small percentage of the body's overall fat.

Still, both companies stress that it's important for patients to change their eating and exercise lifestyle habits as well.
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  #24  
Unread 10-02-2010, 11:44 PM
tayjeremy tayjeremy is offline
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http://www.theslimmingcompany.com/ne...red-treadmill/

Heard of this?
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  #25  
Unread 01-22-2011, 06:54 PM
laxman310 laxman310 is offline
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Shameless bump. I'm a medical intern going into dermatology, so I'll address these questions, as I have a rather keen interest in cryolipolysis and Zeltiq.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglypuffs View Post
Amusingly, since I don't plan on doing this, I still keep thinking about it and reading what I can find.

I saw one write-up where someone claims to have lost 6 inches from their waistline in a single session of this thing. Granted, that person would have to have been fat to start with (since I'm at a 31 now, losing 6" would put me at a 25, which would probably kill me).
http://aestheticdevicereview.wordpress.com/tag/zeltiq/

Assuming one treatment with Zeltiq reduces the fat layer 3mm, and you had the treatment done circumferentially around your waist, you would lose about 3/4" off your waist line (IN MANY MONTHS). Obviously this depends on your waist measurement, with larger waist sizes getting a greater total inch reduction.

Also, realize that the treatment itself is the very beginning of the process, only inducing apoptosis. The actual fat loss occurs in the following months as the damaged fat cells are phagocytosed and carried away by macrophage.

Last edited by laxman310 : 01-22-2011 at 07:20 PM.
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  #26  
Unread 01-22-2011, 07:16 PM
laxman310 laxman310 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
If the studies I looked at are indicative, the mechanism is actual fat cell death (at least in one of teh animal studies that's what was going on).
This is correct. To be more technically accurate, and to provide a more indepth review, this is whats going on at a molecular level:

Cryosurgery has long been used by dermatologists to destroy the epidermis/dermis for the treatment of warts and other superficial skin diseases. The idea is that you freeze the water in the cell (using liquid nitrogen), the water turns to a crystal, and lyses the cell.

Cryolipolysis is a little different. Its classic presentation in pediatric dermatology is as popsicle panniculitis. Kids suck on popsicles all day long, and the fat in their cheeks undergoes the process described below.

Lipids have a higher freezing point than water. The dermis/epidermis has a higher water/lipid content than the subcutaneous fat layer. Cooling the dermis/epidermis (i.e. skin) just above its threshold for damage (somewhere close to freezing) will inturn cool the subcutaneous tissue(fat) below its threshold for crystal formation (around 10 deg celsius). The goal isn't to lyse the cells, but rather damage the intracellular machinery to the point where apoptosis is induced. Macrophages then come in and digest the cells and clean up the area, probably depositing the fat elsewhere in the body

One of the studies also monitored lipid levels, with no increase in blood lipids. Basically this means that your fat is going somewhere else. This makes zeltiq excellent for people with localized fat deposits. Its long been known the the plastic surgery community that liposuction patients gain the fat that they lost through the surgery back, but they have a better self image as a result of an altered fat distrubution (esp in women, where the fat sucked from their abdomen/thighs later gets reaccumulated to other areas, such as their breasts/buttocks).
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  #27  
Unread 01-22-2011, 07:42 PM
laxman310 laxman310 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
Releasing dead cells into the bloodstream causes problems of the autoimmune type, hence my comments above. That's been part of the issue with my now decade-old apoptosis project: figuring out how to kill the fat cells without killing the person. So you can only do bits at a time.
As I'm sure your aware, apoptosis and lysis are not the same. The dead cells aren't released into the blood, but rather undergo a combination of phagocytosis/efferocytosis. This results in minimal/moderate inflammatory response, as it appears efferocytosis results in upregulation of antiinflammatory pathways. Although I am unaware if a family/personal history of autoimmune disorders (graves, dermatomyositis, diabetes type 1, etc) is asked about in the medical history (any competent dermatologist always asks this), for people with a predisposition to auto-immune diseases this procedure may not be wise.

The real limiting factor is the depth the cold penetrates and the amount of area you can treat in a reasonable time. The machine must be expensive (probably well over 100K), and treatment is typically an hour long per area. Unless you had a machine that could treat the whole body (death by hypothermia), or used too cold a setting/too much suction (skin necrosis via frostbite/ischemia) it would be hard to mess up.
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  #28  
Unread 06-27-2011, 04:04 PM
vic616283 vic616283 is offline
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My input (I actually did zeltiq on my gyno)

I did zeltiq and within 6 weeks i had lost a I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.load of fat. I did it in my axilla area, i tend to get a fat roll that starts at my nip and travels all the way to my back. 1 treatment was enough to almost kill all the fat. Certainly more than half of it.

...Then, a couple of months later, i hit a strong bulk and regained all the zeltiq fat. Don't ask me how, but i literally completely regained my axilla rolls over a 3 month bulk where i only went up one pant size. This time my axilla rolls look more symmetrical, whereas before zeltiq one was much bigger than the other.

I'm around 18% bodyfat right now, was 18.6% (by calipers, professionally done) after zeltiq. Probably went up to around 22% with my bulk.
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  #29  
Unread 06-28-2011, 01:00 PM
easyrhino easyrhino is offline
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wait, doesn't proper gyno involve breast tissue that isn't fat?

Also, regaining frozen fat would seem pretty weird. With lipo, fat tends to be regained in other fat stores.
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  #30  
Unread 07-05-2011, 07:13 AM
vic616283 vic616283 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easyrhino View Post
wait, doesn't proper gyno involve breast tissue that isn't fat?

Also, regaining frozen fat would seem pretty weird. With lipo, fat tends to be regained in other fat stores.
Yeah i called it gyno but really meant pseudogyno
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