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  #1  
Unread 05-16-2017, 04:45 AM
Sevi Sevi is offline
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Default Can someone who is well trained but has never been on a surplus still see newb gains

My initial thought is they wont because of neural adaptions but still see better gains then an normal intermediate
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  #2  
Unread 05-16-2017, 08:43 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is online now
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The question makes no sense.

N00b gains are all the rapid gains in muscle and strength that one might expect to make in say the first year (or a little longer) of GOOD training.

In fact, a lot of people never even get past the newb gains stage because of appalling training. For example, if you're an average man and struggling with a 75kg squat, you might think to yourself that you're past that initial stage and are an intermediate. But you'd be wrong. You just don't know what you're doing.

You see a lot of such examples in the gym. Once they learn how to train properly, they see rapid improvements that they failed to attain over many years

I call it the "Intermediate"-novice conundrum: compete rank novices, utterly convinced that they're intermediates

Last edited by BigPecsPeter : 05-16-2017 at 08:46 AM.
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  #3  
Unread 05-16-2017, 05:14 PM
Sevi Sevi is offline
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Okay but what about if someone, is doing everything right (training wise) squating and deadlifting 2x their bodyweight but hasnt never been on a surplus so hasnt gained much mass. Once they go on a surplus do they start experiencing more gains then someone who got to that point via surplus of calories
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  #4  
Unread 05-17-2017, 02:47 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevi View Post
Okay but what about if someone, is doing everything right (training wise) squating and deadlifting 2x their bodyweight but hasnt never been on a surplus so hasnt gained much mass. Once they go on a surplus do they start experiencing more gains then someone who got to that point via surplus of calories
If one has 2x bodyweight squats and deadlifts, the person is intermediate on those lifts. That is past the newbie gain stage for certain.

The issue here is that the person may still have newb gains to make in some other muscle groups. They may materialise on a bulk.

Also, please be aware that there's no such thing as having NEVER been on a surplus. Oftentimes one is on a surplus without having necessarily programmed one. There will be days when one has exceeded their calorie requirements, and days where they've gone under. This might mean, as in your case, a NET maintenance, but within that there have been circumstances of sufficient calories for muscle gain. Some people call this "recomp". It doesn't really matter that it hasn't been a traditional bulk: you've been gaining muscle, as if on a bulk. Indeed, you may have particularly good genetics for general muscle gain without too much of a planned surplus.

In summary, you might have newb gains left in you, but you'll have to find out
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  #5  
Unread 05-17-2017, 06:46 AM
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Hectic Hectic is offline
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How can you lift that much without never having been in a surplus?

Sorry, but you have already used up all your newb gains

Last edited by Hectic : 05-17-2017 at 06:50 AM.
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  #6  
Unread 05-17-2017, 08:48 AM
Sevi Sevi is offline
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Definitely been on a deficit cause ive been losing weight, was obese lost 30kg now im 80kg and can squat 165kg
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  #7  
Unread 05-17-2017, 09:10 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevi View Post
Definitely been on a deficit cause ive been losing weight, was obese lost 30kg now im 80kg and can squat 165kg
Yeah. You can make newb gains on a deficit, starting from overweight. So you've probably had most your newbie gains. Mystery solved
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  #8  
Unread 05-17-2017, 06:26 PM
Sevi Sevi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPecsPeter View Post
Yeah. You can make newb gains on a deficit, starting from overweight. So you've probably had most your newbie gains. Mystery solved
Yeah but can you make faster gains than an intermediate that was on a surplus while he was progressing to 2x bw for squat

So
person 1. On a deficit and progresses to 2x bw for squat

Person 2. On a surplus and progresses to 2x bw for squat

Person 1 would gain ( strength and mass size) faster than person 2 when he finally decides to go on a surplus
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Unread 05-17-2017, 11:26 PM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevi View Post
Yeah but can you make faster gains than an intermediate that was on a surplus while he was progressing to 2x bw for squat

So
person 1. On a deficit and progresses to 2x bw for squat

Person 2. On a surplus and progresses to 2x bw for squat

Person 1 would gain ( strength and mass size) faster than person 2 when he finally decides to go on a surplus
It's nothing to do with "would X get there before Y".

Assuming correct training:

The beginner will ALWAYS make faster progress than the intermediate. This is a logical necessity, because being a beginner MEANS 'you can progress workout on workout', whereas being an intermediate means 'you can NO LONGER progress workout on workout'.

In terms of who reaches a 2x bw squat first, this is a separate issue, and is more determined by genetic factors than anything else. It's not about "taking advantage of newbie gains" etc.
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  #10  
Unread 05-17-2017, 11:34 PM
Sevi Sevi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPecsPeter View Post
It's nothing to do with "would X get there before Y".

Assuming correct training:

The beginner will ALWAYS make faster progress than the intermediate. This is a logical necessity, because being a beginner MEANS 'you can progress workout on workout', whereas being an intermediate means 'you can NO LONGER progress workout on workout'.

In terms of who reaches a 2x bw squat first, this is a separate issue, and is more determined by genetic factors than anything else. It's not about "taking advantage of newbie gains" etc.
Im talking in a hypothetical sense. Both are intermediate same genetics, would the person who just started going on a surplus of calories be at a advantage than the one who has always been in a surplus.
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