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  #1  
Unread 07-17-2008, 03:57 PM
Mauro Mauro is offline
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Default Two questions about structured refeeds

Hi,
I'm on a low-carb diet.
It's not a PSMF, but, coupled with a lot ( at least for me ) of healthy exercise I'm still dropping about 0.5 kg/week after 6 weeks of scrupulous diet.

Now I'm planning to introduce some flexibility in my diet.

Two (main) questions remained unanswered after I read the Flexible diet handbook:

I have been warned several times about the ill effects of sudden surge of sugars in the blood due to the consequent insulin spike.
In order to avoid that I have been instructed to reintroduce very gradually sugars in my diet when I go from the low-carb to a maintenance diet.
How does this mix with structured refeeds (and "reward" meals?) it would seem to me the hi-sugar consumption during the refeeds should trigger the problem.
What is Your opinion on this?

One of the things I miss most with the strictly low-carb diet is the complete ban of alcoholics (here I refer mainly to wine, seldom to beer, never to spirits).
AFAIK alcohol is considered a kind of carbohydrate; can I use it in "reward" meals? What about structured refeeds?
To clarify: I'm speaking about 1/4 Liter wine at meal, definitely *not* to get anywhere near drunk!

Thanks in Advance
Mauro
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  #2  
Unread 07-17-2008, 04:39 PM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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eat starches if you're concerned with sugars

alcohol in moderate quantities is fine
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  #3  
Unread 07-18-2008, 12:56 AM
Mauro Mauro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
eat starches if you're concerned with sugars

alcohol in moderate quantities is fine
Sorry,
I'm Italian and evidently my command of the English language is lacking
As a result Your fast answer is not what I meant to to ask.

I will try again...

I planned to eat mainly starches (pasta & pizza), but I undertsood that they will be broken down to monosaccarides before entering blood stream.
Real question is: should I be concerned about sudden rise of insulin level in blood? Many physicians seem to belive this is what will trigger diabete. Where can I find something serious about the subject?

Should I count alcohol as carbohydrate when computing my intake (surely *is* energy and it isn't fat or protein!)? I specifically mean: In 5h refeeds I should eat something like a 120g pasta dish in a single meal; can I use 100g pasta + 1/4l wine instead? do they mix?

Thanks for the fast answer
Mauro
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  #4  
Unread 07-18-2008, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauro View Post
I planned to eat mainly starches (pasta & pizza), but I undertsood that they will be broken down to monosaccarides before entering blood stream.

Real question is: should I be concerned about sudden rise of insulin level in blood? Many physicians seem to belive this is what will trigger diabete.
No, you do not need to be concerned, and will not get diabetes. The blood sugar fluctuations may make you sleepy, but nothing worse than that.

Remember this is not an ongoing way of eating, it is a short-term refeed.


Just keep the alcohol intake moderate. A glass of wine with your pasta is fine, a couple of bottles are not. Watch the fat on the pizza
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  #5  
Unread 07-18-2008, 12:59 PM
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yksin yksin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauro View Post
Real question is: should I be concerned about sudden rise of insulin level in blood? Many physicians seem to belive this is what will trigger diabete. Where can I find something serious about the subject?
Just to expand on Sarah's answer:

This wouldn't be anything to be concerned about unless you were already diabetic or already had blood sugar problems that indicated you were at risk for diabetes. It would not give you diabetes in and of itself.

If you think you might be at risk for diabetes, the best thing to do would be to get checked out -- blood sugar, cholesterol, triglycerides, blood pressure, and so on, & talk with your doctor about the results. If there are issues, depending on how good your blood sugar control is, you might want to modify things a little. For many prediabetic or diabetic people there might in fact be problems with a refeed like this, even though it's not a ongoing way of eating. I mean problems in terms of your ongoing blood sugar control: if you are diabetic or prediabetic, this is always going to be an issue, & you should try to keep your blood sugars in good control as much as possible. For prediabetics, it can mean the difference between preventing themselves from becoming fully diabetic, or not.

I'm prediabetic, so if I were doing a refeed, I would monitor my blood sugars closely to see how I responded to the foods I chose, especially if I had been on very low carbs (ketosis) for very long, because there is a short-term increase in insulin resistance when carbs are reintroduced after a long period in ketosis. (See Lyle's Ketogenic Diet book.) But it is very possible for many carb sensitive/insulin resistant people to use refeeds like this quite safely. There's a thread here called Carb loads & blood glucose values where there's a lot of discuss about this.

But if your blood sugar & other indicators are normal, there is nothing to concern yourself about. This will be the case for most people.

-- Mel
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Progress log (RFL cat. 3) Blog
5-1/4" (160 cm), 55, female, insulin resistant
Restart 17 Mar 2014: start 198.2 (89.9 kg) > current 180.8 (82.0 kg) (post-diet break) > goal 140 (63.6 kg)

Last edited by yksin : 07-18-2008 at 01:09 PM.
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  #6  
Unread 07-19-2008, 01:29 AM
Mauro Mauro is offline
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Thanks for the answers.

I'm not pre-diabetic or anything near that (at least my blood tests are well within healthy range).
I have no risk factors beside being overweight... but I'm working on that (I'm 1.70m high and when I saw 99.8 Kg on the scale I decided I had to do something; now I'm down to 83.5 and ticking )

I was concerned because several physicians told me that insulin swings are to be avoided as much as possible because they are what triggers insulin resistence first and diabete insurgence later.
Before discarding this advice as folklore (as too many common medical opinions, unfortunately!) I wanted to do some research.

Concerning the fat on pizza: that's not a problem I'm in Italy (Roma, specifically) and we have a different attitude there. We do not tend to pile a full fridge content on a single pizza; mozzarella cheese is usually the fattest thing that gets on a pizza (along with a spoonfull of olive oil) the rest is vegetables, lean ham and the like.
I hope that's ok

Regards and thanks
Mauro
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  #7  
Unread 07-19-2008, 11:51 PM
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yksin yksin is offline
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Based on your info, I'd say you have nothing to worry about in doing refeeds this way.

-- Mel
__________________
Progress log (RFL cat. 3) Blog
5-1/4" (160 cm), 55, female, insulin resistant
Restart 17 Mar 2014: start 198.2 (89.9 kg) > current 180.8 (82.0 kg) (post-diet break) > goal 140 (63.6 kg)
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  #8  
Unread 08-13-2008, 12:42 PM
nill4me nill4me is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauro View Post
Concerning the fat on pizza: that's not a problem I'm in Italy (Roma, specifically) and we have a different attitude there. We do not tend to pile a full fridge content on a single pizza; mozzarella cheese is usually the fattest thing that gets on a pizza (along with a spoonfull of olive oil) the rest is vegetables, lean ham and the like.
I hope that's ok
MMMMMMMMMMM.....PIZZA!!!
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