Niacin for Lean Gains

[tendency]

what's the niacin dose for this protocol 1 gram?

on my bulking days i eat low carb first meal (around 9:30am) lift from 10:30-noon then eat 2 big carb heavy meals first at 1 or so second usually around 6:30. so the idea here would be to take the niacin prior to my 6:30pm meal? thx-

[Switchez]

Originally Posted by Primalkid

Re-read my OP. Niacin does indeed inhibit fat mobilization BUT this is only in the first 1.5-2 hours after pharmacological dosage intake. This is because it enhances glucose oxidation, and is why I take it with my LAST carbohydrate heavy meal of the day. It will help nutrient partitioning of said meal.

After this time, the body "rebounds" if you will and floods the blood with fatty acids, which inherently puts the body in "fat-burning" mode. Thus you don't want carbohydrates during this time because that will lead to diabetic issues, and again, this is why niacin is taken with the last carb-heavy meal. For most this may be dinner and then you go into sleep with a nice fat-burning boost. Indeed on my recovery days this is the case. On my training days, since I train in the mornings, my last carb-heavy meal is lunch and dinner is PRO/FAT, which won't interfere with niacin's MOA.

Do you think taking yohimbine as well would enhance the effect? Would this be dangerous to do? (Let's assume the healthy, lean individual)

[Primalkid]

Originally Posted by tendency

what's the niacin dose for this protocol 1 gram?

on my bulking days i eat low carb first meal (around 9:30am) lift from 10:30-noon then eat 2 big carb heavy meals first at 1 or so second usually around 6:30. so the idea here would be to take the niacin prior to my 6:30pm meal? thx-

Exactly. I would start with 1g for a week or so to get through the flushing, but try to work towards 1.5-2g. I find 1.5g works well for me.

Originally Posted by Switchez

Do you think taking yohimbine as well would enhance the effect? Would this be dangerous to do? (Let's assume the healthy, lean individual)

They act through incredibly different MOAs. It wouldn't be dangerous and if you were using both during the UD2.0 depletion stages it could do well, but taking yohimbe with food is pointless. Assuming the UD2.0, you would want to take niacin before the depletion workout, and take yohimbe halfway through so that it peaks in your blood when the cardio would start and the fat-rebound from niacin kicks in.

[GoldenDilemma]

http://www.nationalnutrition.ca/detail.aspx?ID=3497

Is this OK? Gonna buy.

[GoldenDilemma]

You have inspired me. I start Cat 1 RFL on Sunday for 11-14 days. Worth using whilst dieting or use it when I transition to maintenance and then fulk (think Dreamer Bulk) calories?

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by Primalkid

So here is the rundown. Basically niacin enhances glucose oxidation during first 1.5 hours, and floods body with free fatty acids at the 2-3 hour mark which will stimulate major fat oxidation. So theoretically, you would take it immediately before your last carbohydrate heavy meal of the day which would also preferably be low in fat. The reason for this is two-fold. You want the meal to be carbohydrate-heavy and low in fat because the niacin will force your body to store all fat and burn glucose. The reason you want it to be the last carbohydrate-heavy meal of the day is because about 2-3 hours after the meal, the body will flood the bloodstream with all the fatty acids that got stored and more in a rebound effect. The body responds accordingly, ramping up fatty acid oxidation. The last thing you want to do is eat carbohydrates when your blood is full of fat and you are literally a fat-burning machine.

Just so everyones clear, am I correct in thinking that the enhanced fat loss effect you speak of is purely theoretical? There's no direct evidence showing that niacin results in reduced fat mass, right?

[Professor Chaos]

Originally Posted by Forrest

Just so everyones clear, am I correct in thinking that the enhanced fat loss effect you speak of is purely theoretical? There's no direct evidence showing that niacin results in reduced fat mass, right?

The context of the post is for lean gains. Which means that a person will be in at least a small surplus over the course of days, weeks and months. In so far as it helping fat loss in a deficit? It is *not* going to do anything substantial to enhancing fat loss.

I'm still skeptical that it'd help anything above smallish amounts for somebody that is looking for gains but on the same token, for a person that is where Primalkid is at, lean and looking to lean bulk, details can/do make a difference. Is there a way to quantify that, it's tough to say.

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by Professor Chaos

The context of the post is for lean gains. Which means that a person will be in at least a small surplus over the course of days, weeks and months. In so far as it helping fat loss in a deficit? It is *not* going to do anything substantial to enhancing fat loss.

How are you coming to the conclusion that it will inhibit fat gain on a small surplus, but that it won't help fat loss in a deficit? Is that what you are saying?

I'm still skeptical that it'd help anything above smallish amounts for somebody that is looking for gains but on the same token, for a person that is where Primalkid is at, lean and looking to lean bulk, details can/do make a difference. Is there a way to quantify that, it's tough to say.

So theoretical?

[Primalkid]

Originally Posted by GoldenDilemma

http://www.nationalnutrition.ca/detail.aspx?ID=3497

Is this OK? Gonna buy.

Originally Posted by GoldenDilemma

You have inspired me. I start Cat 1 RFL on Sunday for 11-14 days. Worth using whilst dieting or use it when I transition to maintenance and then fulk (think Dreamer Bulk) calories?

No, you want the flush. Any flush-free or time-release brands are out. Look for pure niacin or nicotinic acid (same thing). I say it is worth using no matter the goals for its nutrient partitioning, but the effects would be better served in a surplus to minimize fat-gain. In a deficit it may help but is more based on theory. It could also (theoretically) help spare LBM when dieting.

[Primalkid]

Originally Posted by Forrest

How are you coming to the conclusion that it will inhibit fat gain on a small surplus, but that it won't help fat loss in a deficit? Is that what you are saying?

So theoretical?

Helping to minimize fat-gain while in a surplus is not theoretical, it is physiological. Just like how exercise boosts insulin sensitivity.

As for the deficit, it won't burn fat or help with fat loss. Rather, it will help preserve LBM via nutrient partitioning, and depending on the diet (like UD2.0) may help with depletion. It also mimics some of what the stubborn fat protocols 1.0 and 2.0 try to achieve, but I don't want to detail it and encourage you to read the book if you haven't already. Nothing personal, I just don't want to give away Lyle's hard work (the smiley face makes it okay)