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  #101  
Unread 08-14-2009, 06:07 PM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlakramondas View Post
avoid specializing on two push muscles (chest, shoulders, triceps) at the same time.
Yeah, as per I think th first thread, I generally prefer a specialization cycle to be one upper and one lower body muscle group. there can be odd exceptions (e.g. bis/tris would probably work) but I think it's better in the long run.
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  #102  
Unread 08-14-2009, 07:09 PM
BWTrainer BWTrainer is offline
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Originally Posted by pats fan View Post
So rather than try full body three days per week, with pm workouts on the same days for the lagging bodyparts (or those that are the focus of specialization)....
Well then it's not a 3x/week full body is it?
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  #103  
Unread 08-15-2009, 08:36 AM
chevyex chevyex is offline
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I read the thread, a few times. And I came across a quote that I wanted clarification about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlakramondas View Post
close grip bench press 4x6-8
lying tricep extensions 3-4x8-12
(+ maybe one set of pushdowns for 20-25 reps)

or some such

then you do a few sets of maintainence for chest and shoulders. 3-4 set for chest+ 3-4 sets for shoulders.
If what I'm suggesting for a specialization is too much, how is this better? Another 8 sets around chest & shoulders for MAINTENANCE, after all that tricep work? Do you want a shoulder or elbow injury first?
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  #104  
Unread 08-15-2009, 08:51 AM
chevyex chevyex is offline
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Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
Generally, with arm specialization, you're not going to get much out of a compound chest exercise, isolation is better in that case IMO>
This is what I quoted originally, post #20, and I was curious as to why, that's all. You're specialization cycle says to start with a heavy tension, compound movement. I was never trying to make a big thing here.

And I'm still wondering why chest & triceps don't go well together, especially if volume is kept within limits, and other maintenance work too. To my mind, it seems like it fits.

Chest Press 4x6
Pec Dec 2x10
Triceps Extension 2x10

Chin-ups 2-3x6

Certainly overall workload can't be excessive here.
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  #105  
Unread 08-15-2009, 10:18 AM
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mrlakramondas mrlakramondas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevyex View Post
I read the thread, a few times. And I came across a quote that I wanted clarification about.


If what I'm suggesting for a specialization is too much, how is this better? Another 8 sets around chest & shoulders for MAINTENANCE, after all that tricep work? Do you want a shoulder or elbow injury first?
problem is that you don't understand the concept of specialization.

your earlier suggestion wasn't good and is not too much in terms of training volume, (it was too much in the sense that you were trying to specialize on two pushing muscles at the same time) actually its not enough volume. how is doing 2 sets of triceps AFTER chest, specializing on triceps? maybe it is if your name is mike mentzer. sure regular benchpresses hit the triceps but what you suggested looks like a regular non specialization routine. if your triceps grow well with that set up..by all means keep doing it. but if the triceps aren't responding as well as other muscle groups, well then you need to do something else and thats what this thread is about.

8 sets triceps+4 set chest+4 set shoulders = 16 work sets is not an insane volume (pushing volume). your body isnt made of glass and you should be able to handle that. also remember its something you do for a limited amount of time.

the idea behind specialization is that you should cut back on other work and increase volume on the body part you wanna focus on AND to do that body part first in the workout when you have most mental and physical energy. it is for people who have been training awhile and not something for newbies.

Last edited by mrlakramondas : 08-15-2009 at 10:26 AM.
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  #106  
Unread 08-15-2009, 10:37 AM
pats fan pats fan is offline
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Default Well yes it is

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWTrainer View Post
Well then it's not a 3x/week full body is it?

How is it not? 3 x per week full body, adding 1-2 pm 15 minute workouts for lagging bodyparts -

what else would you call it chuckles?
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  #107  
Unread 08-15-2009, 11:13 AM
chevyex chevyex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlakramondas View Post
8 sets triceps+4 set chest+4 set shoulders = 16 work sets

the idea behind specialization is that you should cut back on other work.
I shudder to think what a general program is to you, if 8 more sets is 'cutting back', after doing 8 for triceps specialization. You haven't even mentioned any pulling ex yet. Maybe you need to read the thread again. All else should be maintenance.

But your point is made. I was thinking aloud, planning for something in the fall. Not quite thinking correctly.
BTW, Mentzer definitely wouldn't like that workout suggestion either I believe.
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  #108  
Unread 08-15-2009, 04:17 PM
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Inque Inque is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlakramondas View Post
problem is that you don't understand the concept of specialization.

your earlier suggestion wasn't good and is not too much in terms of training volume, (it was too much in the sense that you were trying to specialize on two pushing muscles at the same time) actually its not enough volume. how is doing 2 sets of triceps AFTER chest, specializing on triceps? maybe it is if your name is mike mentzer. sure regular benchpresses hit the triceps but what you suggested looks like a regular non specialization routine. if your triceps grow well with that set up..by all means keep doing it. but if the triceps aren't responding as well as other muscle groups, well then you need to do something else and thats what this thread is about.

8 sets triceps+4 set chest+4 set shoulders = 16 work sets is not an insane volume (pushing volume). your body isnt made of glass and you should be able to handle that. also remember its something you do for a limited amount of time.

the idea behind specialization is that you should cut back on other work and increase volume on the body part you wanna focus on AND to do that body part first in the workout when you have most mental and physical energy. it is for people who have been training awhile and not something for newbies.
Your making some massive assumptions about volume tolerance here. I think that you should also rember that if they have no clue how to setup a specialization cycle after its been explained here, then they prob are no where near advanced enough to be using specialization.

Specialization is for people that are ADVANCED lifters. Just because someone has been lifting for a few years doesn't make them advanced
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  #109  
Unread 08-15-2009, 04:25 PM
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mrlakramondas mrlakramondas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevyex View Post
I shudder to think what a general program is to you, if 8 more sets is 'cutting back', after doing 8 for triceps specialization. You haven't even mentioned any pulling ex yet. Maybe you need to read the thread again. All else should be maintenance.

But your point is made. I was thinking aloud, planning for something in the fall. Not quite thinking correctly.
BTW, Mentzer definitely wouldn't like that workout suggestion either I believe.
obviously you have no idea what your talking about.

lol. if someone usually does 6-7 sets for chest* (which is a pretty usual volume for chest if you look at good 2-day splits such as lyles bulking routine) . then doing 3-4 sets (of chest) per session is cutting back.

*per session

I have put together an alternate specialization routine for you:

1 set of triceps extensions ( 2 sets if you are brave )
1 set of flyes
1 set of side raises


Last edited by mrlakramondas : 08-15-2009 at 04:56 PM.
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  #110  
Unread 08-15-2009, 04:35 PM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevyex View Post
I read the thread, a few times. And I came across a quote that I wanted clarification about.


If what I'm suggesting for a specialization is too much, how is this better? Another 8 sets around chest & shoulders for MAINTENANCE, after all that tricep work? Do you want a shoulder or elbow injury first?
read my first post in this thread. four or five times. Andnote that, generlaly the work you'd piack for maintenance WOULD NOT BE COMPOUND EXERCISES.
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