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  #1  
Unread 07-07-2015, 12:05 AM
Philip1943 Philip1943 is offline
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Default Measuring ketones

Some people following the ketogenic diet keep track of their ketones by measuring betahydroxy butyrate in ther blood ie BHOB. This method is accurate but a bit expensive. Over the last few years there has become available breathylisers that measure acetone as an indicator of the degree of ketosis.

Does anybody here use this latter method ? and if so, would they be willing to share here their results/experiences.?
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  #2  
Unread 07-07-2015, 07:50 AM
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Doesn't matter. Ketosis per se means very little
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  #3  
Unread 01-22-2016, 04:33 AM
MrMaggs MrMaggs is offline
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Hi Philip,

Re: breath analyzers - while I think there`s at least one research paper floating around showing some correlations between acetone and blood BHB, it is definitely a "minority" ketone compared to BHB and acetoacetate. It would be interesting to see a properly researched comparison between such a device, a blood reader and a urine tester.

As McD suggests however, the ketones themselves don`t necessarily tell you anything other than how deep you are in ketosis - is that what you`re talking about when you mean measuring?

Best,

Dan
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  #4  
Unread 03-14-2016, 10:29 AM
Cristiano17 Cristiano17 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
Doesn't matter. Ketosis per se means very little
Lyle sorry for bumping an old post. Please don't scold me for that.
But i don't get this whole Ketosis thing. I mean as long as i am having say 150gm Protein, 120gm Fat & 25-30 or even <100gm of Carbs (less than what our Brain requires per day) won't my body be using FFA's as fuel? If yes then won't i be producing Ketones as a byproduct? If yes then am i not in the state called KETOSIS?

Now Pro Ketogenic Dieters say that 25gm carbs must come from Veggies or things that won't raise our Insulin or else you will disrupt Ketosis.
Your book says that Carbs should come from Complex sources which won't raise blood glucose therefore won't increase Insulin & reduce Glucagon & won't disrupt Ketosis.
BUT
If as you say that Ketosis doesn't matter (I have read that in so many answers of yours) then can't we have say those 25/30gm Carbs in a sitting or say 5/6gm of Table Sugar spread around 5 meals which will definitely disrupt Ketosis?
I mean what would happen then? Won't our bodies be using FFA's for fuel even when all i am having is 25-30gm of Carbs in one day?
If it would still be burning FFA's for fuel then won't i get Ketones as by product? And if i am getting Ketones as byproduct then won't i stay in Ketosis?

And if you say that doing what i am saying will disrupt Ketosis then SHOULDN'T KETOSIS MATTER? I mean shouldn't it be an indicator of if our body is using FFAs for fuel?

Quoting from your book
"What does ketosis represent?
The development of ketosis indicates two things. First, it indicates that the body has shifted from a metabolism relying primarily on carbohydrates for fuel to one using primarily fat and ketones for fuel (4).
This is arguably the main goal of the ketogenic diet: to cause an overall metabolic shift to occur in the body. The reasons this shift may be desirable are discussed in the next chapter.
Second, ketosis indicates that the entire pathway of fat breakdown is intact (4). The absence of ketosis under conditions which are known to induce it would indicate that a flaw in fat breakdown exists somewhere in the chain from fat breakdown, to transport, to oxidation in the liver. This absence would indicate a metabolic abnormality requiring further evaluation."

Sorry but i am so confused over this 'KETOSIS MATTERS OR DOESN'T MATTER THING' it's been bugging me from quite a long time. I came on forum just to get this thing resolved. I mean should i have to be scared while eating my carbs that i may end up disrupting Ketosis & ruining my diet?
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Unread 03-14-2016, 10:44 AM
lylemcdonald lylemcdonald is offline
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In an identical deficit, ketosis or nor, you still burn about the same net FFA's since the oxidation of fa's is used to offset the deficit itself.

So it doesn't matter given the same protein and calorie intake. Ketotic, non-ketotic, fat loss will be identical.

And the problem is that people cahse ketosis as if it matters. Ketosis isn't ht goal and you can be in deep ketosis eating a ton of fat. And you won't lose a gram of bodyfat. And you can not be in ketosis and in a deficit and you will.

Too much protein will lessen ketosis. So they reduce protein which is always I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.-backwards unless you're epileptic. Sufficient protein, calorie deficit, that's what matters.

Ketosis per se means nothing.
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  #6  
Unread 03-14-2016, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcdonald View Post
In an identical deficit, ketosis or nor, you still burn about the same net FFA's since the oxidation of fa's is used to offset the deficit itself.

So it doesn't matter given the same protein and calorie intake. Ketotic, non-ketotic, fat loss will be identical.

And the problem is that people cahse ketosis as if it matters. Ketosis isn't ht goal and you can be in deep ketosis eating a ton of fat. And you won't lose a gram of bodyfat. And you can not be in ketosis and in a deficit and you will.

Too much protein will lessen ketosis. So they reduce protein which is always I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.-backwards unless you're epileptic. Sufficient protein, calorie deficit, that's what matters.

Ketosis per se means nothing.
Them: "But surely you don't mean ketosis doesn't matter?

You: "Yes, I do, and don't call me Shirley!"
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  #7  
Unread 03-14-2016, 12:38 PM
lylemcdonald lylemcdonald is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david View Post
Them: "But surely you don't mean ketosis doesn't matter?

You: "Yes, I do, and don't call me Shirley!"
Do you like Gladiator movies, David?
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  #8  
Unread 03-14-2016, 12:53 PM
Cristiano17 Cristiano17 is offline
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Ok Lyle i got this sir & thanks for the reply. I did read the rules and i did try finding things on forum/website but couldn't maybe i was lazy something but i have bookmarked almost all your articles.
I agree if the deficit is same then no matter what type of diet we will be losing the same amount of fat cause that's the basic law.

But i came across one article of yours i guess it was about Insulin Sensitivity & Fat Loss.
There you gave some pointers about how we can guess what kinda Insulin Sensitivity we have and how much Insulin we secrete after a heavy carb meal. From that perspective i categorize myself as a guy who is a bit Insulin Resistant (250lbs, 35%ish fat) cause i always feel bloated whenever my carbs are high (150-200gms around) and after a heavy carb meal i always feel sleepy especially when i have Rice and curry sorta things.

Also i came across one article of yours (Don't remember the name) which said that if you aren't comfortable on High Carbs then you sure will do well in Low Carb/Keto sorta diet and vice versa. So that's why i was thinking of going on Keto.

I just read another article of how Ketogenic diets have no metabolic advantage whatsoever over Non Ketogenic diets. But sir would it have any advantage over fat mobilization from the fat cells? I mean i have tons of fat around my belly and thighs area which i guess lacks blood flow. Since i am not able to exercise due to some reasons & i am sedentary most of the time won't i do better on low carb/ketogenic diet compared to moderate carb diet and lose equal amount of fat from such sites compared to Moderate/High Carbs diet?

Also there is another question that i have posted in the Ketogenic Diet forum hoping you would give it a look.

Regards
Cris.
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  #9  
Unread 03-14-2016, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david View Post
Them: "But surely you don't mean ketosis doesn't matter?

You: "Yes, I do, and don't call me Shirley!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcdonald View Post
Do you like Gladiator movies, David?
Hehehe...
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  #10  
Unread 03-05-2017, 01:37 AM
Rafaeltow Rafaeltow is offline
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Default Measuring ketones

Hi Keto Tech

Ive been off and on in ketosis for years.

The measuring devices that are available are the urine sticks and the diabetic blood monitors which involve finger poking .
The urine sticks are helpful when first getting started but then decline in efficacy once ketosis is established because they only measure the ketones being excreted, not the ketones circulating and being used for fuel.
The finger poking method is much more accurate but I dont want to be stabbing myself constantly since I dont have diabetes.

If you could come up with something as accurate as the blood monitors but with the convenience of the urine sticks, that would be awesome.
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