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  #1  
Unread 07-15-2017, 11:13 PM
abdii abdii is offline
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Default Vegan Vs Keto Vs Fat [The Insulin myth?]

Greetings,

Dear all, what is the logical explanation of obese/pre-obese vegans/vegatarians bypassing insulin resistance[IR*] so easily on ultra high carb diets and even getting rid of stubborn fat after required time with no ill effects?

Is IR and insulin relation to stubborn fat just a myth after all? is calories all that matters for fat loss regardless of insulin status of the dieter ?

Thanks
  #2  
Unread 07-15-2017, 11:37 PM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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I think you must have stepped onto the wrong website.
  #3  
Unread 07-16-2017, 08:17 AM
lylemcdonald lylemcdonald is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abdii View Post
Greetings,

Dear all, what is the logical explanation of obese/pre-obese vegans/vegatarians bypassing insulin resistance[IR*] so easily on ultra high carb diets and even getting rid of stubborn fat after required time with no ill effects?

Is IR and insulin relation to stubborn fat just a myth after all? is calories all that matters for fat loss regardless of insulin status of the dieter ?

Thanks
Those diets make you eat less. And starvation works great. Of course they are endlessly unehalthy and this is a dumb question
  #4  
Unread 07-16-2017, 08:56 AM
ssg10587 ssg10587 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abdii View Post
Greetings,

Dear all, what is the logical explanation of obese/pre-obese vegans/vegatarians bypassing insulin resistance[IR*] so easily on ultra high carb diets and even getting rid of stubborn fat after required time with no ill effects?

Is IR and insulin relation to stubborn fat just a myth after all? is calories all that matters for fat loss regardless of insulin status of the dieter ?

Thanks
As Lyle said, pretty much this. I don't know enough about stubborn fat so I won't comment on that part. A deficit is a deficit regardless of macros. See guy who lost weight eating only potatoes or twinkies.

Other than for subjective ethical reasons, there isn't any reason I've found to be vegan. Meat is great for you and saturated fats have shown to be better for hormones than other fats.
  #5  
Unread 07-17-2017, 03:59 AM
abdii abdii is offline
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Originally Posted by lylemcdonald View Post
Those diets make you eat less. And starvation works great. Of course they are endlessly unehalthy and this is a dumb question

How can we say they are not healthy while empirically many people get so healthy on these "starvation" diets and many scientists are trying to prove their benefits (Vegan vs Low protein keto vs Long fasts "scholars")

Its becoming so prevalent. many people get healthy and loss all types of fat on any of the famous "mythological" diets regardless if it was keto or vegan and regardless if they had IR or IS....

and the problem is that they all work yet they all are contradictory which is getting me lost

Iam a long time follower of you Mr Mcdonald so i know that you believe low carb diets are better for insulin resistance people, yet vegans (regardless of the b12 deficiency that they offset with supplements) on the highest amounts of carbs and sugar are doing fine and losing SFat with no issues. and to add more confusion to me.... keto diet guys are gaining mass with low protein and no carbs at all... wtf is wrong with this world

i hope to get any answer from you

regards

Last edited by abdii : 07-17-2017 at 04:04 AM.
  #6  
Unread 07-17-2017, 06:06 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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You made a lot of claims there. "Loads of people have achieved this doing that", etc. Where? Where are all these people? Show me these multitudinous masses of keto people consuming"low" protein who are putting on "loads" of mass.

Otherwise you're just regurgitating cockamamie stories flying around the web. Bring the "loads" of real examples, that aren't merely outliers.
  #7  
Unread 07-17-2017, 07:04 AM
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Hectic Hectic is offline
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Obese and sick people might find that these diets are 'healthy' because it's a way of eating less and it's easy to follow initially because you just have to eat according to whatever arbitrary rules (forcing you to eat less short term) and don't have to know anything or track anything. It's healthy for them because not dying from a heart attack in 5 years is a step in the right direction.

Obese and sick people also benefit from only walking because it helps them get active

If your not sick or obese and you have the inclination to learn from this website you can probably figure out something more optimal than eating like a diabetic

It's not contradictory, it's just context dependant. Also the definition of fitness and health is being free from disease and fit enough to live normally. I don't know about you but I have higher aspirations than not having metabolic disease and being able to walk to the corner store. But people think health and fitness is looking like A Greek God and being able to do 30 muscle ups.

someone one at 30% body fat might easily get to 15% doing low carb and only cardio

Someone at 10% body fat will probably end up back at 15% doing something like this

There's a point where health and fitness no longer equals extreme body recomposition and athleticism

Last edited by Hectic : 07-17-2017 at 07:28 AM.
  #8  
Unread 07-17-2017, 07:22 AM
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Hectic Hectic is offline
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Here's an example of context

Dave Asprey is a keto advocate, but he used to be obese, and now he's on thyroid and hormone replacement and god knows what else.

He used to be sick. Now he's 'healthy' because he's treated his 'sickness'

So if your already a healthy 30 year old at 20% bodyfat who squats 120 kg who wants to see their abs, does that mean you should go keto because it's what Dave Asprey likes to do?

No

Does it mean you should go vegan so your acid alkaline balance is great?

No

Does it mean you should sign up to weight watchers and start aiming for 7000 steps a day?

No

If you are 200kg from eating double quarter pounders and bacon egg muffins all day and 4L of coke should you go vegetarian and sugar free?

Yes

Last edited by Hectic : 07-17-2017 at 07:32 AM.
  #9  
Unread 07-17-2017, 07:35 AM
ssg10587 ssg10587 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abdii View Post
How can we say they are not healthy while empirically many people get so healthy on these "starvation" diets and many scientists are trying to prove their benefits (Vegan vs Low protein keto vs Long fasts "scholars"...
Weight loss doesn't mean healthy. They may get healthier but they are still often lacking important vitamins, nutrients and fats that animal foods provide.

Iron, B3, Zinc and Saturated Fat are all things that are difficult to supplement or not possible to have through vegan or vegetarian dieting.

Also important is that people often miss quality of life vs quantity While vegan, vegetarian or whatever may be thought to increase longevity (not sure it even does), the quality of your time matters. Meat gives you important nutrients that improve overall health and quality of life.

Like I said, unless you have a moral objection, there is no benefit to vegan or vegetarian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPecsPeter View Post
You made a lot of claims there. "Loads of people have achieved this doing that", etc. Where? Where are all these people? Show me these multitudinous masses of keto people consuming"low" protein who are putting on "loads" of mass.

Otherwise you're just regurgitating cockamamie stories flying around the web. Bring the "loads" of real examples, that aren't merely outliers.
Also this. Lol at keto and gaining lots of mass. That has NEVER worked out.
  #10  
Unread 07-17-2017, 08:25 AM
lylemcdonald lylemcdonald is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abdii View Post
How can we say they are not healthy while empirically many people get so healthy on these "starvation" diets and many scientists are trying to prove their benefits (Vegan vs Low protein keto vs Long fasts "scholars")
Issues identified in vegans

anemia, low bone density, elevated homocysteine and many oethers due to the complete removal of foods containing

high iron, high calcium, B12

Some studies link veganism/vegatarianism to reproductive disorders. How can any diet be healhy that impairs reproduction?

That's how I can say that. Compared to the MODERN american diet, veganism is better. Compared to a balanced diet containing animal and vegetable problems it is UNHEALTHY

Yes, eating more vegetables is healthy
Remmoving high nutrient density foods that are required for human health is not. And that is what vegetarian diets to some degree and vegan diets to all degrees do.

Losing weight always makes people healthier IN THE SHORT TERM

Most vegans I've met are terribly unhealthy IN THE LONG TERM as they become depleted of essential nutrients.
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