BodyRecomposition Support Forums  

Go Back   BodyRecomposition Support Forums > General information > General training questions
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 09-06-2017, 10:38 PM
nsteel nsteel is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 57
Default Barbell vs dumbell front press

When doing seated dumbell press I have the seat ramrod straight as the dumbells go up and down beside my head.

However because I have to clean the dumbells I have a limitation on the weight I use. In addition there is an energy drain before you even begin the exercise.

When I perform seated barbell press from a rack, I have to set the angle at about 100 degrees simply to get the bar past my head. Ramrod straight, 90 degrees is dangerous.

I have noticed that the greater the angle the stronger I am. The upper pecs which are a powerful muscle, are taking over and robbing my delts of stimulus.

Which brings me to my question. What is the ideal angle for delt development given the conflicting considerations mentioned above?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 09-07-2017, 12:13 AM
Determinism Determinism is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 403
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nsteel View Post
What is the ideal angle for delt development
You mean front delts right? There is no "ideal" angle as long as you're upright, can push the weight overhead and are able to overload.

Here is information about what the muscle does:
http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/DeltoidAnterior.html

Tips:
- Barbell seated press or overhead press are easier to setup than dumbbell press. Less of an energy drain.
- When using a barbell, bring your arms slightly closer together.
- Try to be as upright as possible instead of inclined.
- I know this goes against shoulder health and what everybody in the fitness community stands for, but you can also try behind the neck barbell press (or in the smith machine). That way you definitely won't use your pecs.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 09-07-2017, 03:05 AM
nsteel nsteel is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 57
Default

Lots of data show behind neck press has a high risk of shoulder injury. I have done them, was very strong and had great delts.

Some data shows that those powerful upper back muscles rob the delts the same way upper pecs do with front press.

What are your thoughts on the injury aspect?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 09-07-2017, 06:23 AM
highwire highwire is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 41
Default

I saw Jeff Nippard do a single arm smith machine standing press with his body 90 degrees to the bar, so like a one armed DB press with a neutral grip. Of course balancing the bar and the height of the smith machine might be issues.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 09-09-2017, 12:33 PM
BEATMEOUTTAME's Avatar
BEATMEOUTTAME BEATMEOUTTAME is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 346
Default

I would never do behind the neck. Risk of injury is far too great for the reward.

Dumbbells are pretty good until you get heavy That's why barbell training makes more sense.

I would never, ever, ever, ever, EVER use a smith machine for any type of press movement. Again, the risk of injury is far too great. That goes for squatting and deadlifting too.
__________________
My Wild Ride to A great body in my 30s.

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=23215

Thank you Lyle. This website is a game changer once you understand the mechanisms behind fat loss/muscle gain.

Spun my wheels for years prior to finding this site.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 09-09-2017, 07:31 PM
lylemcdonald lylemcdonald is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nsteel View Post
Lots of data show behind neck press has a high risk of shoulder injury. I have done them, was very strong and had great delts.

Some data shows that those powerful upper back muscles rob the delts the same way upper pecs do with front press.

What are your thoughts on the injury aspect?
Really? What data?

And here's the thing, f pecs rob the front delts and midback robs the medial delts, why train anything at all?

Just do machine lateral raises and stop asking questions you don't want answers to. It's superior to every press in existence.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 09-09-2017, 07:33 PM
lylemcdonald lylemcdonald is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEATMEOUTTAME View Post
I would never do behind the neck. Risk of injury is far too great for the reward.
Only siths and those who know nothing of training speak in absolutes.

Because it's amazing: people did BTN press for decades without injury.

It's in the modern era when people have terrible posture that they are a problem.

But the movement is no the problem. The possture is.

That said, the Hammer OHP trumps all of this as does good machine lateral raise.

OHP is overated for shulders, DB press is hard to stabilize and problematic.

You want big delts, screw both of 'em. Proper upright row + side raise machine.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 09-10-2017, 05:02 AM
Determinism Determinism is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 403
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcdonald View Post
You want big delts, screw both of 'em. Proper upright row + side raise machine.
True, side delts are important and many guys think they're properly hit by doing pressing movements. However, I had the presumption that the question was about front delts (i.e. pressing), not about how to train side delts.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 09-10-2017, 07:33 AM
lylemcdonald lylemcdonald is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Determinism View Post
True, side delts are important and many guys think they're properly hit by doing pressing movements. However, I had the presumption that the question was about front delts (i.e. pressing), not about how to train side delts.
#1. Who in the helol needs to train front delts in the first place. Benching gets that done 99/100

#2. Do front raises. This obsession with doing complex, technical compound movements with an isolation is going to be superior is asinine.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 09-10-2017, 08:16 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,205
Default

I wish my gym had a bloody side raise machine.

The trend these days is for all the flashy "functional movement" stuff. The two machines that always worked the best, being the pec deck and the side raise, have disappeared from gyms left right and centre for their bodybuilding-specific reputation. Really damn annoying.

My gym is so hell bent on avoiding upper body machines that they actually have TWO hamstring curls. TWO. Virtually next to each other. For Pete's sake
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.