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  #1  
Unread 07-09-2012, 06:00 AM
jimjack jimjack is offline
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Default The smoking gun on why grains are bad...

Or so the paleo folks like to think. Every time there is an article about why grains are bad for you this article gets brought up.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16635908

The study isn't even done on humans, just human tissue in a lab.

"CONCLUSIONS:
Based on our results, we concluded that gliadin activates zonulin signaling irrespective of the genetic expression of autoimmunity, leading to increased intestinal permeability to macromolecules."

Apparently eating grains will increase gut permiability in everyone, according to the paleo folk...and this study PROVES IT. I am a bit skeptical though. What do you guys think?
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  #2  
Unread 07-09-2012, 07:00 AM
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Yeah, and every study showing that grains are related to good health is ignored by them completely.
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Unread 07-09-2012, 07:14 AM
popupwindow popupwindow is offline
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A funny thing is that robb wolf used to say that if your bloodwork got worse on paleo it was because cholesterol is a sham etc, taubes-ian need to look a VLDL , trigs and whatever else, and always relied heavily on a1c as a reliable measure.

He had another guest on his show that was saying how a1c often gets worse on a paleo diet from his experience working with heaps of clients (for some psuedo-science reason), and thus...they needed a different measure. No, not that what they were doing was perhaps not optimal or he was maybe wrong in some instances, but the measure was wrong, because them being wrong is impossible. Constant goal post shifting, well learned from his time at crossfit.
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Unread 07-09-2012, 07:31 AM
jimjack jimjack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popupwindow View Post
A funny thing is that robb wolf used to say that if your bloodwork got worse on paleo it was because cholesterol is a sham etc, taubes-ian need to look a VLDL , trigs and whatever else, and always relied heavily on a1c as a reliable measure.

He had another guest on his show that was saying how a1c often gets worse on a paleo diet from his experience working with heaps of clients (for some psuedo-science reason), and thus...they needed a different measure. No, not that what they were doing was perhaps not optimal or he was maybe wrong in some instances, but the measure was wrong, because them being wrong is impossible. Constant goal post shifting, well learned from his time at crossfit.
Do you think this is a conscious thing? Do you think they know deep down that this diet isn't optimal but support it because that is their meal ticket or do you think that they are actually somewhat delusional about their beliefs and actually justify their mental gymnastics because of this?
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Unread 07-09-2012, 07:53 AM
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I think there are both in the paleo world (and overall health and fitness too of course). It can be hard to separate them, but someone like mark sisson is willing to throw his name on anything to make money. He's a very savvy businessman and rich because of it, so good for him. I'd put Poliquin in the same camp too, he knows what the truth is, and he knows what sells, and he's very aware of ensuring the former doesn't interfere with the latter.

Someone like robb wolf reeks of true believer too, he's always been quick to dogmatically throw himself to an ideology, veganism, low carbing, crossfit, paleo...I think he truly believes it's the best. The kicker is that he and many others at this point are in too deep to change, even if he realised he was wrong, he couldn't afford to admit it. The free the animal guy is similar but has had some rare epiphanies such as potatoes, white rice and fruit not equaling death, calories mattering and low carb not being the answer to everyone all the time... but these lucid moments are rare inbetween bouts of incoherent political ramblings and personal swear filled attacks on critics. Sad state of affairs.
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  #6  
Unread 07-09-2012, 07:59 AM
jimjack jimjack is offline
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lol, sisson sells the most overpriced supplements I have ever seen. Even most people on sisson's site knows it is a joke.
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  #7  
Unread 07-09-2012, 08:01 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjack View Post
Do you think this is a conscious thing? Do you think they know deep down that this diet isn't optimal but support it because that is their meal ticket or do you think that they are actually somewhat delusional about their beliefs and actually justify their mental gymnastics because of this?
What the thinker thinks the prover proves. Once someone has decided on something, they will rationalize all data to support that idea.
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Unread 07-09-2012, 09:06 AM
pohc pohc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjack View Post
Or so the paleo folks like to think. Every time there is an article about why grains are bad for you this article gets brought up.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16635908

The study isn't even done on humans, just human tissue in a lab.

"CONCLUSIONS:
Based on our results, we concluded that gliadin activates zonulin signaling irrespective of the genetic expression of autoimmunity, leading to increased intestinal permeability to macromolecules."

Apparently eating grains will increase gut permiability in everyone, according to the paleo folk...and this study PROVES IT. I am a bit skeptical though. What do you guys think?

What about the following quote from the study: "Chronic gliadin exposure caused down-regulation of both ZO-1 and occludin gene expression."

Does this mean that people who include grains in their everyday diet are less susceptible to increased gut permeability? Or is it the other way around?
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  #9  
Unread 07-09-2012, 09:35 AM
hugh hugh is offline
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The question is more appropriately worded "gliadin-containing grains," which is limited to wheat & its cousins. Rice and corn don't contain gliadin, which partially explains how a portion of the paleo world justifies eating rice and corn. Robb Wolf even admits to eating corn tortillas on occasion.
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  #10  
Unread 07-09-2012, 11:42 AM
RobertD RobertD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
What the thinker thinks the prover proves. Once someone has decided on something, they will rationalize all data to support that idea.
Read some of RAW's books?


So why are we focussing only on Paleo man and just skipping over the fact that the 'oldest people in the world' (Okinawans) right now are eating a high grain diet?
Of course their centenarian count and old age vitality probably has to do with a variety of factors. Genetics, low stress, not overeating, a lot of exercise/movement until old age...etc.

What it does show however is that a diet high in grains probably doesn't really have any considerable health impact when you're not gluten intolerant and will probably just be a healthy daily food source.

Last edited by RobertD : 07-09-2012 at 11:48 AM.
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