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  #1  
Unread 04-25-2016, 03:17 PM
Wealthy Jona$ Wealthy Jona$ is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Germany
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Default Long term deficit needed?

Hello.

I purchased the book some days ago and find it very interesting, of course. A few statements confused me, tho.

Information concerning myself that are needed:

- 1.80m; 70.7kg
- roughly 10% bf
- veines strongly visible on my arms
- veines slightly visible around my neck/upper chest/shoulders/latissimus

Quoting Lyle:

Quote:
Of course, moving a little beyond the issue of fat cells themselves, there’s another big
reason that stubborn fat is stubborn and that has to do with when it has a chance to come
off in the first place. That time, of course, is at the end of a long diet. As I’ve noted, the
body will always take the easier to mobilize fat first and only when that’s gone will it even
touch the stubborn fat.
I think most of my non-stubborn fat is already gone.

Quote:
Again, that generally comes after a long dieting period and there are lots of other factors
occurring then that conspire to make stubborn fat harder to get off. The first are
hormones: leptin levels will be down, thyroid will be down, cortisol will be up, nervous
system output is typically down. This causes an overall reduction in metabolic rate and
lipolysis above and beyond the issues discussed above. Of course, fat cells are smaller at
this point, which further inhibits lipolysis.
I'm on IF 16/8, <18% carbs on off-days, HCLF on training days. Protein is kept high every day (250+ grams off, 220+ on). Caloric deficit is kept around 300-500 on off-days, I overeat around 50-200kcal on training days.

Lipogenesis and lipolysis are two different things. Losing fat is just about lipogenesis minus lipolysis = <0.
After eating, a certain amount of the fatty acids consumed enter fat cells. The more I eat, the more is getting stored. Since I keep my caloric surplus rather small, the amount of lipogenesis should be low, right? In addition, I consume 70-80% of my calories during the workout/within 5 hours after my workout. The caloric surplus should positively affect protein biosynthesis, less of the surplus should contribute to fat storage.

Hip dysplasia is the reason why I can't go for heavy squats, neither for heavy leg presses, neither for deadlifts (I'm doing rack deads). Leg recovery is almost no concern because of this. I am doing the SFP 2.0 two-three times a week right now.

Since I use it after a fast of 12-15h and more days/week with a deficit than a surplus + already have a pretty low body fat percentage + the cardio workout itself is used for fat cell depletion - shouldn't this routine in total allow me to lose stubborn fat in the long term?

Since leptin will be up + whole metabolic rate in general because of the constant refeeds, from my point of view it should be possible to do so.

I would like to hear opinions on my thoughts.

Thank you for your time.
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  #2  
Unread 04-28-2016, 06:30 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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Posts: 2,275
Default

Your question is a jumble of muddled mishmash, but I'll say one thing: you can't beat the system. You'll only keep fat off in the long-term by avoiding a net surplus of calories.
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  #3  
Unread 04-28-2016, 09:41 AM
Wealthy Jona$ Wealthy Jona$ is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Germany
Posts: 13
Default

...

My question is precise enough, I do not understand your problem here.

Quote:
deficit is kept around 300-500 on off-days, I overeat around 50-200kcal on training days.
4x~350 deficit

vs

3x ~150 surplus

= -950kcal/week

I appreciate replies, but your reply did not answer any part of my question, nor did it asked for further detail that were needed for an answer. Useless stuff.

Did you even understand what I asked for?

Lol. Your answer is so ridiculously useless and absurd, I do not know if you are trying to troll or ...
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  #4  
Unread 04-28-2016, 10:03 AM
lylemcdonald lylemcdonald is offline
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If you're not in a deficit, you're not losing fat and none of this wanking is going to change that.
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  #5  
Unread 04-28-2016, 12:37 PM
Wealthy Jona$ Wealthy Jona$ is offline
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As I stated the second time in my last post, I really am in a deficit of roughly 1000kcal/week.

All I want to know:

Is it possible to deplete stubborn fat cells and oxidate the then free fatty acids when I use the SFP 2.0 like this + cycle calories + ... all I described in the first post!

Does it work this way when I am slightly undereating (third time I mention it)?

The small deficit + the little refeeds should keep leptin levels higher than having a deficit of 500kcal every day -> better conditions for fat loss and muscle preservation.

Or is a CHRONIC DEFICIT of lets say 500kcal needed to get the stubborn fat out of the damn cells?
Are there any metabolic processes that hinder the depletion when I refeed as I mentioned above?

Is this clear enough so you can reply?

I state it again, shorter and fat:

chronic deficit without small refeeds needed for the loss of stubborn fat?

OR

cycling as I do is fine AS FAR AS I have an overall deficit in the "long run" (week)


I do not want to seem impertinent, but all you guys reply with is "you need a caloric deficit" even though my first post clearly shows that I DO have a caloric deficit.

Last edited by Wealthy Jona$ : 04-28-2016 at 12:38 PM. Reason: corrected a statement
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  #6  
Unread 04-28-2016, 02:38 PM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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To get rid of stubborn fat you need to have a deficit. No deficit, no fat mobilisation.
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  #7  
Unread 04-28-2016, 02:47 PM
Wealthy Jona$ Wealthy Jona$ is offline
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Okay, enough of the trolling, I won't feed you anymore.
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  #8  
Unread 04-29-2016, 04:43 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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I'm not trolling. Your question is ambiguous. If you already have a deficit, then what exactly are you worried about?

In terms of those days/periods where you are in surplus, it would be reasonable to postulate that you're not going to be mobilising any stubborn fat. But saying so, as I gather you are only running the protocols under conditions of deficit.
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  #9  
Unread 04-29-2016, 07:07 AM
Wealthy Jona$ Wealthy Jona$ is offline
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Wonderful, that answer is helpful

It seemed logical to me, too, but people mention that stubborn fat is targeted last, so I was not exactly sure if this was meant in terms of "after a long period of a deficit only" or because of "having low bf% so only stubborn fat is left".
Seems trivial I guess, but all the concerns regarding low leptin levels and low metabolic rates would be rubbish if people just cycle as I proposed.

If it is that simple indeed, I'm fine with that.

Thanks.
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  #10  
Unread 05-09-2016, 11:02 AM
asmcriminal's Avatar
asmcriminal asmcriminal is offline
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I have lost 192lbs, I am also majoring in biochemistry. I have been researching health and weight loss for over 20 years.

You sound like me a while back. There is this good quote, “Before you study Nutrition, food is food and drink is drink; while
you are studying nutrition, food is no longer food and drink is no
longer drink; but once you have had enlightenment, food is once
again food and drink is again drink.”

Right now, to you food is no longer food and a drink is no longer a drink. You're caught up in all the mumbo jumbo. Throw all that stuff out the window and focus on what matters. What matters for fat loss is a calorie deficit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wealthy Jona$ View Post
Hello.

I purchased the book some days ago and find it very interesting, of course. A few statements confused me, tho.

Information concerning myself that are needed:

- 1.80m; 70.7kg
- roughly 10% bf
- veines strongly visible on my arms
- veines slightly visible around my neck/upper chest/shoulders/latissimus

Quoting Lyle:



I think most of my non-stubborn fat is already gone.



I'm on IF 16/8, <18% carbs on off-days, HCLF on training days. Protein is kept high every day (250+ grams off, 220+ on). Caloric deficit is kept around 300-500 on off-days, I overeat around 50-200kcal on training days.

Lipogenesis and lipolysis are two different things. Losing fat is just about lipogenesis minus lipolysis = <0.
After eating, a certain amount of the fatty acids consumed enter fat cells. The more I eat, the more is getting stored. Since I keep my caloric surplus rather small, the amount of lipogenesis should be low, right? In addition, I consume 70-80% of my calories during the workout/within 5 hours after my workout. The caloric surplus should positively affect protein biosynthesis, less of the surplus should contribute to fat storage.

Hip dysplasia is the reason why I can't go for heavy squats, neither for heavy leg presses, neither for deadlifts (I'm doing rack deads). Leg recovery is almost no concern because of this. I am doing the SFP 2.0 two-three times a week right now.

Since I use it after a fast of 12-15h and more days/week with a deficit than a surplus + already have a pretty low body fat percentage + the cardio workout itself is used for fat cell depletion - shouldn't this routine in total allow me to lose stubborn fat in the long term?

Since leptin will be up + whole metabolic rate in general because of the constant refeeds, from my point of view it should be possible to do so.

I would like to hear opinions on my thoughts.

Thank you for your time.
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