BodyRecomposition Support Forums  

Go Back   BodyRecomposition Support Forums > General information > Supplements
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #861  
Unread 03-13-2014, 02:50 PM
Primalkid Primalkid is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,239
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah_k View Post
Likewise primal had already been telling people to "read the full effing thread" much earlier on when the confusion between molecular mass figure (high 80 something%) and the 75% figure passed around of DNP content in sodium/crystal...

...So where was the justification for that, primal? Jumped the gun just a bit? The point being just because something is touched on (several times) doesn't indicate it's been covered...
Honestly I don't even remember that *lol*

Regardless, I actually completely agree with the bolded section.
Reply With Quote
  #862  
Unread 03-13-2014, 04:46 PM
noah_k noah_k is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 391
Default

Cheers primal. For the rest - nilo, I'm sorry but this is nearing on insane. Since last night I've spent some time going through the slides, and keeping pace with everything. Even if "basic", it is so academically specific that there's no way a casual reader would make it through that and be able to draw any sort of conclusion to my scenarios had they not already had quite a bit of prior knowledge of nutrition and fitness, along with a refresher on biology and chemistry.

I spend a lot of time indirectly through work keeping up with drug profiles and what limited chemistry/biology I need, but DNP was something that had eluded me due its taboo nature, prior lack of interest, limited and scattered (often contradictory) research in the wild, and heavy reliance on one anonymous user's findings after digitalizing the early 30s work. The Llewleyn Anabolics book, otherwise notably and consistently comprehensive, is extremely sparse.

The point is I was able to get through the slides, answering the questions, draw up an educated guess based on my understanding of basic calorie expenditure in exercise which I'll post later for clarification, but there's just no way that linking that powerpoint was in any way, shape, or form an ideal way to answer that question, especially if I didn't have the prior knowledge. Even if the inclusion of exercise and additional energy demands were discussed directly, it's completely insincere to expect someone to use that to find their answer when it can be correctly interpreted by someone more well versed since so much of it was technical and unnecessary to answering the question.

When someone asks for the contraindications of aspirin, you don't throw them a college book of drug history wherein two researches were studying current advances in NSAIDs and....

No, you can list them and give a brief explanation why, or say "this is beyond the scope of a quick answer." This is not unreasonable, and your tone and irritability has no place. All I was asking for was a lead or rundown, as I've not studied the drug these past days with the same effort you have these past months.


Again, maybe my question was specifically answered and covered later, there's only so many hours in the day and I've had to go over it a few times as refresher when I lose my place, but if you truly believe "the pretty diagram on slide 24" is the obvious answer I should have discovered already, then I really don't know what to tell you. Maybe stay out of a career that would require you to summarize something to someone from a differing field.

Last edited by noah_k : 03-13-2014 at 05:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #863  
Unread 03-13-2014, 06:05 PM
farrenator farrenator is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,043
Default

It seems like you think you deserve a nice, concise answer specifically addressing your exact point.
Reply With Quote
  #864  
Unread 03-13-2014, 06:33 PM
noah_k noah_k is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 391
Default

No, I was just a little stressed from work, lack of sleep, and got a little irritated when I realized (or think I realized) that I was right - no concise or clear answer / theory had been covered on that, and it went beyond the scope of what had been laid out. And that the slideshow, while extremely informative, still required some extrapolation and prior knowledge to arrive to an answer, it did not even touch on exercise.

I know I'm not owed anything, don't mean to come across that way. But consider that my first question was just "hey do we have specific info on x" which I was shot down with an impatient "Yes." and "Read the thread. We even had a slideshow specifically touching on this." I'm just gathering preliminary research details / sources for someone far more knowledgeable than I, not for personal use.

Nilo clearly knows his stuff and has taken time to answer some questions in private, so I shouldn't have let my stress get the best of me and take it out on him. He's a good guy, but I would have been happier to hear that it hadn't been succinctly summarized and that I could try in my own time, through nilo's notes or the other sources, rather than go through the material and see that it wasn't so clear as suggested.
Reply With Quote
  #865  
Unread 03-14-2014, 06:16 PM
maxbroke maxbroke is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 31
Default

any problem w/ taking 20 mg amphetamine(prescription) every morning while on dnp?
Reply With Quote
  #866  
Unread 03-15-2014, 12:40 PM
niloluiz niloluiz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 264
Default

@Noah:

I should've explained better what I meant by saying that something was previously discussed here and you ended up doing some wrong inferences from that.

Given the specificity of your question, I assumed that you already had some basic understanding of the processes you are asking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_respiration

couple that with the basic understanding of how DNP works, also rehashed in this thread more than once (the powerpoint thing only explains that with more depth) PLUS the fact that it was said, more than once in this thread that DNP affects ALL energy expenditure, not just BMR/BEE or aerobic or whatever and I was pretty sure you would get your answer but seems I was wrong in that assumption.

To make this clear, and rehash this point once again in this thread, if DNP is increasing your metabolic rate by 30%, then this means EVERYTHING you do will expend 30% more energy to be performed, it doesn't matter if it is sleeping, digesting food, walking, running or doing X sets of whatever exercise you can imagine. DNP causes an inefficiency in ATP production (more substrate will be consumed and the wasted energy dissipated as heat). This affects every cell in the body including neurologic cells so there's no exclusions to the reach of the metabolic effect of DNP within the body - all terms of the energy expenditure equation will be equally affected: BMR,RMR,TEA,NEAT,TEF, etc.

Regarding the constant reminds to read the entire thread before posting questions, this is simple the house rules in this forum and you admitted before not reading the whole thing, and if you can't bother to read the thread which contains lots of information, then nobody will bother to post answers either. So search/read main site articles which covers a lot of topics, then search the forum /threads and only then new questions should be posted. While a specific answer may not exist for any given question, chances are the pieces of information needed for the answer are readily available and if not, any additional discussion will certainly contribute to the topic at hand.

Sorry if I sounded rude before, that was not the intention.
Reply With Quote
  #867  
Unread 03-15-2014, 12:58 PM
niloluiz niloluiz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 264
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglypuffs View Post
I ran into that girl again. (had foot pain)

She's been running DNP at that low dose (150mg/day - she's ~100lbs) since I last spoke to her. She says no pain or anything. Also not terribly hot/sweaty - makes sense at a low dose I guess.

From what I could tell talking to her, she isn't really changing anything about her diet, just taking these. She wanted to "make her butt smaller" - I asked if she's been measuring/weighing or tracking this in any sort of way. Nope!

Sort of checked out after that.

At least at that low dose she's unlikely to hurt herself.
I figured that PN wasn't really the issue, not after taking DNP for just 48h....
anyway make sure she pays attention to any suspicious symptoms, especially those regarding PN..... the risk (around 10%) is quite material and as research demonstrated, dosages over 100mg is enough to trigger this side-effect for those susceptible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxbroke View Post
any problem w/ taking 20 mg amphetamine(prescription) every morning while on dnp?
I see no problem but since amphetamine itself boosts metabolism you should use conservative dosages of DNP to avoid intense heat waves and other potential issues. If the amphetamine is solely for fat loss goal, I would skip it altogether and stack DNP with better alternatives like DMAA, ECA or CLEN.
Reply With Quote
  #868  
Unread 03-15-2014, 10:56 PM
noah_k noah_k is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 391
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by niloluiz View Post
@Noah:

couple that with the basic understanding of how DNP works, also rehashed in this thread more than once (the powerpoint thing only explains that with more depth) PLUS the fact that it was said, more than once in this thread that DNP affects ALL energy expenditure, not just BMR/BEE or aerobic or whatever and I was pretty sure you would get your answer but seems I was wrong in that assumption.

To make this clear, and rehash this point once again in this thread, if DNP is increasing your metabolic rate by 30%, then this means EVERYTHING you do will expend 30% more energy to be performed, it doesn't matter if it is sleeping, digesting food, walking, running or doing X sets of whatever exercise you can imagine. DNP causes an inefficiency in ATP production (more substrate will be consumed and the wasted energy dissipated as heat). This affects every cell in the body including neurologic cells so there's no exclusions to the reach of the metabolic effect of DNP within the body - all terms of the energy expenditure equation will be equally affected:
BMR,RMR,TEA,NEAT,TEF, etc.
Essentially, I was in a time-crunch, tired, and needed a scientific basis for what's oft repeated, and failed to find it without taking more time to truly go through and understand why DNP functions how it does on a cellular level and go from there. I missed earlier mentions of it affecting all energy expenditures, my fault, though I also would have still been after the why which I hadn't found earlier.

In short, I was impatient. You weren't wrong with your assumptions, but it did require a bit more research and occasional confirmation to get the full picture and I just didn't take too well to the irritated tones or implications that the *why* was obvious. It's one of those things that's clear and obvious in hindsight and easy to explain going forward, but before I found myself asking "but what about x" and "if y is true, does that mean z" etc. I had also wondered about differences in the different types of respiration since I didn't truly get how uncoupling worked, only what it was, with the increase in oxygen demands for the ETC to continue to carry protons.

Anyway, during my absence someone else kindly sent a message confirming and elaborating on the conclusion that I came to and what you also just touched on, so all is well.
Reply With Quote
  #869  
Unread 03-16-2014, 06:35 AM
maxbroke maxbroke is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 31
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by niloluiz View Post
I see no problem but since amphetamine itself boosts metabolism you should use conservative dosages of DNP to avoid intense heat waves and other potential issues. If the amphetamine is solely for fat loss goal, I would skip it altogether and stack DNP with better alternatives like DMAA, ECA or CLEN.
I don't suppose you have any figures for a bmr increase? I couldn't find any.
Reply With Quote
  #870  
Unread 03-16-2014, 02:52 PM
Primalkid Primalkid is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,239
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxbroke View Post
I don't suppose you have any figures for a bmr increase? I couldn't find any.
Actually yes, they are stated in the thread so continue looking.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.